Topic Title: Arrogance in Characters
 Rune Grey
Cunning Antagonist |
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|  "Arrogance in Characters"
, Wed 9 May 18:58 : |
Reply Edited |
This post contains *SPOILERS*
This topic is going to be about, as is quite obvious from the title, arrogance in RPG characters, and how it can make even the most unassuming mole hills into interesting, fun, and just... neat. ^_^
Now, Krelian, Sydney, Ramsus, Sephiroth, Kuja... all of these fools are nothing compared to the most interesting and arrogant villain I have ever encountered in ANY RPG. The man that I speak of is Lezard Valeth... sorcerer of renown power, necromancer with supernatural powers, master alchemist, and the most powerful wizard in all of Midgard. A man who's powers and knowledge, due to his possession of the Philosophers' Stone, rival that of the Gods themselves.
And he's a GEEK. The most picked on, despised, and oddest student at the Flenceburg Magic Academy. As certified a geek as you will ever seen. Heck, he even has some legitimate 'rumors' about his odd habits...
And he becomes the most powerful sorcerer EVER. But the most amazing thing is WHY. For Lezard does not desire to conquer the world... no, his sole desire is to possess the love of Lenneth Valkyrie, the poor picked on heroine of the story. And this boy is *obsessed*. And it all starts from a simple glimpse, a single image that turned Lezard from a geek to genius and lord of magic.
Of course, the Philosophers' Stone helped that immeasurably. But Lezard's obsession goes on beyond simply wanting Valkyrie's love... while any NORMAL person might have stormed the gates of Valhalla and attempted to woo her... Lezard creates a castle and stuffs it into another dimension. And then captures his former teacher at the Magic Academy, turns her husband into an undead monster, and has her killed in order to draw Valkyrie to his Tower in order to speak with her.
And in the depths of Lezard's tower, after Valkyrie is already disgusted from his experiments, Lezard proposes to her, and offers to stuff her into the body of a half elf homunculus. And Valkyrie reacts as you might expect her to... and tries to kill Lezard. Not the 'attempted' killing that you often see in anime, but an attempt to send his soul to Nifelheim where Lezard does belong.
And this does NOTHING to change Lezard's feelings and opinions for her. Heck, even KRELIAN gets a clue after he hears Sophia express her feelings for Lacan, as much of an obsessive fool as he is. (Yes dear, I have no respect for that blue - dead blonde haired, cowardly pretty boy ^_^). You really have to respect someone for being as pigheaded as Lezard is... and even after Lezard kills himself and later joins you in the Seraphic Gate, the majority of his comments are directed towards Valkyrie as he fights in battle.
Now... can you think of anyone else who has risen from such humble beginnings to aspire to such heights? People who are not quite your 'average' villains, who have different goals that set them apart? And while it may also be a bit of a matter of opinion... can they beat out Lezard for obsessive behavior? ^_~
And as for this not being Xenogears related... well, this is Myaru's forum, and I know she loves Lezard... so she isn't going to have any problems. Are you, dear? ^_~
Rune Grey
~Perpetual Thorn of Logic and Reason
"May I have another fork...?" ~ Legato Bluesummers . Trigun
[this message was edited by Rune Grey on Wed 9 May 19:00]
Posts: 130
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| | "Re(1):Arrogance in Characters" , Mon 28 May 06:33 PM | Message #394
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Okay, new person here. Might as well throw myself into the thick of things!  Erm, and sorry if my name's kinda similar to TheContact's, but I've been using this one for a while and don't wanna change it...
Anywaaay...
Gotta stick up for Xenogears here. Id Id Id Id Id. By far THE coolest looking baddie ever. And this baddy was spoiler:the main character! Talking about meaningless destruction, Id managed to be insane and rational at the same time (or, at least he sounds rational). Why does he want to destroy everything? Because he feels like it. And just because in the end he gets spoiler:reintegrated into Fei is no reason to disqualify him as a bad guy.
Grahf... was nowhere near as cool as Id, if only because he looked like some kind of stack of metal super-glued together. (why the heck does he have a little triangle hanging off the end of his nose, anyway?)
Personally, I didn't like Kefka too much. He just acted like a spoiled child. Who cares how insane he was when all he does is throw temper tantrums?
By the way, in Lovecraft, isn't it supposed to be Nylarothotep? Can't remember, been too long since I read it.
Hmm... Sephiroth was pretty cool, again mostly because of his looks. He also had a really really REALLY long sword, which is always a plus. Kuja... I had trouble figuring out that he was s'posed to be a guy... I mean, he had hips, for chrissake! He was still pretty cool though, especially in the spoiler:movie where he fights Bahamut (sort of). St. Ajora... eh. All I can say about him is that I killed him with one hit before he even got to move. I know, it's not a reason to disqualify him, and Tactics was my favorite FF ever, but it really disappointed me.
I didn't really like the bad guys in Chrono Cross... Magus from Trigger was kind of cool.
I really need to get my hands on those Suikoden games... everybody talks about them. Vagrant Story too.
Anyway, them's my thoughts on the 'best bad guy' theme. My vote is for Id.
-feithecontact
"Does the word 'duty' justify all of this?"
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TheContact
Let's Go Down the Waterfall |
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| "Re(1):Arrogance in Characters" , Wed 9 May 21:46 | Message #218
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This post is laden with FF6 spoilers.
Well, throwing in my weight behind Kefka is a no brainer.
Here is a man... ne... a creature that lives evil, loves evil, IS evil. He's completely arrogant, but is powerful enough to feed his own narcissism and turn himself into a god. In fact, he's arrogant enough to deem that life's very existance is meaningless, and takes it upon himself to destroy the world.
What's more, he actually succeeds. Not many RPG villains can put down "success" on their resumes 
In fact, when he's confronted by Celes, his own arrogance leads him to believe he cannot be hurt... and while his blood is drawn, he subsequently kills Geshtahl (I honestly didn't see that one coming) and well... destroys the world (didn't see that one coming either).
Oh, and he made his underlings clean the sand from his boots in the middle of a desert. That's pretty damn arrogant.
As for why he did all this... t'was his nature. He was created to be a monstrosity, and at every chance he gets, he gladly (and without remorse) executes his plan.
Rarely is a villain actually obsessed with simply being evil... usually they want to rule the world or get back at someone or otherwise have some intention that we see as flawed... Kefka was a kamikaze... destroy everything at any cost... evil perfection.
hehehe, only villain I really loved to hate :)
Bwahhahahahahhahaha!
-TC
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| | | "Re(2):Arrogance in Characters" , Thu 10 May 00:10 | Message #220
Replied to #218 |
It seems to be a bit of a toss up here at my house.... my mother(an adamant RPG player) agrees that Kefka wins hands down... however, Sephiroth from FF7 was more than a bit off as well. How else do explain his joy in killing and ruining the lives of everyone he encountered? He even killed Aerith..... that was just low. Like most villains he tried to destroy the earth, failed and had some weird transformation in the end..... He still ranks in the arrogant category..... but I'm still not sure....
Kefka may actually beat even Sephiroth, who as Myaru is sure to agree has at least looks on his side. ^_^
"...and I took the road less traveled by and that has made all the difference."
Robert Frost
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| | | "Re(4):Arrogance in Characters" , Fri 11 May 00:22 | Message #256
Replied to #236 |
Rune dear, I didn't think you noticed such things..... Sephiroth definitely has the looks, but I didn't expect you to point out such things.... and after the hard time you gave dear Myaru a while back..... now you seem to be.... well I guess we shouldn't go there.....
"...and I took the road less traveled by and that has made all the difference."
Robert Frost
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| Registered: Wed 2 May 2001 1:9 | |
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| | kostjan
Deus Ex Messageboard |
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| "Re(2):Arrogance in Characters" , Wed 9 May 23:33 | Message #219
Replied to #218 |
Hmm... I know a person more evil than Kefka, and almost as powerfull, if we transit from the magical world to a little bit more real world... You know him very well too: it' your friend Lucca Blight...
Granted, he's not a "god", not even a warlock or a wizard... But he's a man so evil and cruel, no1 dares to oppose him, and whatever he wishes for, everything is executed.
Just like Kefka, he destroys everything on his path just for himself, for the fun, and not to opress enemies... In fact, he enjoys killing children and women most, for they are worthless in his eyes, unable to put up a good fight...
And although Kefka was mad, I think Lucca was at least twice as mad as he is. I mean, no-one sane is going to say to an invisible whoever "They gonna pay for that with their lives" after discovering an useless (to him) amulet filled with fireflies..
There...
I prefer rational/smart villains tho, like Krel, Ghaleon, Sephiroth and the gang... =)
Best Regards
Kostjan
Quote of the moment:
im not a cheater
im a hacker
u can see it too if u dl the hack
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| | | "Re(3):Arrogance in Characters" , Thu 10 May 08:12 | Message #224
Replied to #219 |
Lucca was great as a villain. Madness incarnated. I hated the guy so much, that I just couldn't stop laughing when he got the rain of arrows on him. There's also the feeling I got during the 4 battles you have with him in a row, just priceless. That's how all villains should be...
What were his final words? I remember something like "I'm the ultimate evil!". Like I said, a great character, and probably the best antagonist in Suikoden 2. Jowy doesn't make the cut, and Gorudo is just an asshole like Leon Silverburg/Silverberg.
"Just don't be afraid to admit that it would take a legion of wild horses to rip you away from watching that gorgeous hunk take that sad beautiful shonen in his arms and...
to be continued...
FANGIRL: "DAMMIT!"-Jen
TFK's Gazel member!!!
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| | | "Re(5):Arrogance in Characters" , Thu 10 May 10:10 | Message #229
Replied to #226 |
That's why he doesn't make the cut in my list.=b
He is not one. He only fights the hero once, and not exactly out of anger or anything else...
"Just don't be afraid to admit that it would take a legion of wild horses to rip you away from watching that gorgeous hunk take that sad beautiful shonen in his arms and...
to be continued...
FANGIRL: "DAMMIT!"-Jen
TFK's Gazel member!!!
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| | | "Re(4):Arrogance in Characters" , Wed 30 May 04:45 AM | Message #414
Replied to #221 |
That pic is definitely NOT from the original game!!! Sincerely, I don't like some of the character models from the re-make movies... Too girly or manicur for all male characters...
Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven.
- John Milton Paradise Lost
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| | | "Re(4):Arrogance in Characters" , Thu 10 May 22:26 | Message #249
Replied to #221 |
*raises eyebrow* Where did that image come from? Is it one of the archive shots unlocked at the end of the anthology version? My save got erased before I beat that version.
Isis
"Rydell had a theory about virtual real estate. The smaller and cheaper the physical site of a given operation the bigger and cheesier the website."
-William Gibson; All Tomorrow's Parties
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| | | "Re(4):Arrogance in Characters" , Thu 10 May 12:33 : | Message #232
Reply Edited |
Hey how come you got a pic of my ex on a bad day!
thank god shes my ex! I never knew she was trying to conquer the world 
it's better to live ugly than to die beutiful.......... You will never have another chance at life so live life to the max!
[this message was edited by Xenofreak on Thu 10 May 12:35]
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| | TheContact
Let's Go Down the Waterfall |
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| "Re(5):Arrogance in Characters" , Thu 10 May 11:49 | Message #230
Replied to #227 |
As far as his history is concerned, they do reveal a lot in the game/manual. He was born in Vector, and at the time of the game is about 35. Before he was a general, he was a Magitek Knight. Several years ago (I don't remember exactly when), Professor Cid of the Imperial Empire ran an experiment to infuse soldiers with magicite to give them magical abilities. Kefka was the first to volunteer for this experiment. Unfortunately (or fortunately), something didn't take well, and he lost his mind as a result of the infusion. Cid had recommended to Gestahl that Kefka be killed for safety reasons, but Kefka was insanely powerful and Gestahl wanted to use him, making him a general.
Celes was, as far as I can remember, the result of what was learned from Kefka's experiment... her sanity remained after she was infused.
Also, I think it's important to note that Kefka was one of the first RPG villains who wasn't just there as the "evil one." Like, in most RPGs before FF6 (and indeed after FF6), the main antagonist was always in a shroud of mystery... you only get hints as to their motives, existance, etc. And then at the end of the game, they're suddenly there *coughFF8cough*.
Kefka, on the other hand, was there from the very intro of the game.
Mind you, I think Lucca Blight is a great villain, but we didn't see too much of him :(
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| | | "Re(6):Arrogance in Characters" , Thu 10 May 11:58 | Message #231
Replied to #230 |
The best things come in small packages ^_^
But I really hate it when the villain appears only at the end. Like Legend of Dragoon or, like you said, FF8 (FF9 does it as well, and it's even worse). Hell, even FF1 had a main villain that had appeared before in the game...
"Just don't be afraid to admit that it would take a legion of wild horses to rip you away from watching that gorgeous hunk take that sad beautiful shonen in his arms and...
to be continued...
FANGIRL: "DAMMIT!"-Jen
TFK's Gazel member!!!
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| | | "Re(8):Arrogance in Characters" , Thu 10 May 17:45 | Message #240
Replied to #238 |
You always take phrases out of context anyway.
quote:
"usually the assault on assholes is collective"-kostjan
"gangbang!"-TC
Lol. It's true. *wonders what the hell would his phrase mean out of context anyway*
"Just don't be afraid to admit that it would take a legion of wild horses to rip you away from watching that gorgeous hunk take that sad beautiful shonen in his arms and...
to be continued...
FANGIRL: "DAMMIT!"-Jen
TFK's Gazel member!!!
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| | | "Re(4):Arrogance in Characters" , Thu 10 May 02:57 | Message #222
Replied to #221 |
That is just FRIGHTENING. **shiver** I just can't see Kefka in that kind of light. It's too demented. HE is too demented, come to think of it... I like the depressive, psychotic, obsessive pretty boys... but I don't think I can come to terms with real insanity. ^^
Krelian, Ghaleon, Sephiroth, and yes, even Lezard... those are definitely more my style. ^^;; (And yes, Lezard is quite an eye-catcher, Rune dear, but... he's just not angsty enough. ^.^)
Ja mata.
Amber Michelle
"On the heights all paths are paved with daggers." - Wheel of Time
"Sore demo wa... itsuka."
- Lezard because he's cool. ^.^
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| | Rune Grey
Cunning Antagonist |
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| "Re(5):Arrogance in Characters" , Thu 10 May 17:25 | Message #234
Replied to #222 |
This post contains spoilers for several different games.
Eh, Kefka was never demented enough to really be disturbing... to be honest, he had no real motivation beyond having the emotional maturity of a twelve year old. ^_^ Kefka is an example of why you do not want to fuse magacite into a less than stable person... look at all of the bad things that it did to Celes, and she was fairly normal to start out with.
And angst is not the best way to define a villian... of course, we also know that you have a thing for the 'I'm not evil, I'm misunderstood' crowd, Myaru dear. ^_^ I mean... two of the four villians you mentioned are not really acting out of 'evil' motives. (Alright, so Ghaleon started out evil, but he eventually was good later on... that really weakens any evilness he has ^^ And Sephiroth has been turned into a goody-goody by the fangirls...). Lezard on the other hand... he makes not excuses for being evil. ^_^ Or arrogant. And nasty.
However, I do really have to agree with another comment in this thread... Lucca Blight was an EXCELLENT villian. No being misunderstood, no excuses, nothing... and one of the better lines I've heard. "It took hundreds of people to kill me... but I've killed thousands!" There is no more satisfying moment than seeing the Orange Army turning him into a porcupine.
Another one of my favorites, Ramirez from Skies of Arcadia... well, he's halfway between Lucca Blight and Sephiroth. He makes no excuses for his actions, but he's also misguided... but he chose the path that he wants to take. Mark him up under badguys who could have been good. ^_~ Melfice from Grandia 2 is also a good villian... cept he was possessed. Very evil, but possessed. ^^
And finally, as an example of ultimate evil that you don't often see... Nytharlotep, from Persona 2 Innocent Sin and Persona 2 Eternal Punishment. Sure you see some other, lesser evils in the game... but this is the Crawling Chaos from Lovecraftian fame. You can't get more pure evil than that. ^_^ And he has another qualification that Kefka has... he wins. And gets Deus ex Machinaed out of his victory. And wins again, even after time gets reset.
That is also something else to discuss... obscure villians. Any that are worth mentioning? Are there any that are just misunderstood? And any that are pure evil? ^_^
Rune Grey
~Perpetual Thorn of Logic and Reason
"May I have another fork...?" ~ Legato Bluesummers . Trigun
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Lil' Angel
"Re(6):Arrogance in Characters"