Original message
| |  "Eldridge"
, Wed 1 Nov 18:06
Guess what about the people on the Eldridge.
The never aged, the people on the Eldridge were the same generation that saw Earth's destruction. I'll explain if ya want.
They didnt age 4000 years on the Eldridge.
Posts: 12
| Location: Shevat
| Registered: Wed 11 Oct 2000 18:59 |
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Replies:
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| | "Re(1):Eldridge" , Mon 6 Nov 15:00
This is getting very interesting:)
"And there was Silence in the House of Judgement" -- Oscar Wilde
Posts: 6
| | Registered: Tue 12 Sep 2000 12:4 |
| | "Re(1):Eldridge" , Thu 2 Nov 02:06:
I guess you are right in that part kostjan, althouh I am only in 10 grade, and have not taken any physics classes. I wouldn't really know. Maybe it isnt the same generation, but I dont think it is hundreds of generationsm maybe 3 or 4.
[this message was edited by Jeffrey on Thu 2 Nov 02:11]
Posts: 14
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| | | "Re(2):Eldridge" , Thu 2 Nov 08:12
Hehe it's cool.. :) Just thought you'd mean the physics aging in relativity theory, and wanted to correct you.. But you didn't.. hehe =)
BTW, I don't like physics alot... At least, not the calculations... But theory is very very fun.. =)
Best Regards
Kostjan
http://www.xgamers.com
http://www.xtreme-networks.com
Design And Digital Art Department
Posts: 47
| Location: Montreal Canada
| Registered: Thu 21 Sep 2000 14:26 |
| | | "Re(2):Eldridge" , Thu 2 Nov 02:16:
THIS IS MENT AS HUMOROUS-AND MAY CONTAIN A CC SPOILER.
Yes, I was on the Eldrdge. After the crash, everyone tought that Abel was the only one to survive, but no. I did as well. I used the technology of the Eldridge to extend my life. During the events in the game I met up with Lucca after the Lahan incident. I told her the history of humanity. After that she used a device of hers to fling us foward in time, to the era of Chrono Trigger, after Lavos was stopped of course. I was there as Lucca discovered Kidd in the forest. I later used the rebuilt Epoch to travel back in time to this era. Here I have been for 2 years. And you will not live in the future AC, your bloodline will die out before the next century. At least you wont see the destruction of Earth. Better yet, you manage to survive till 2510, for you are the anti-christ, you became ruler of Earth and began the projedt of creating the weapon Yabeh. but as it turned on Earth and humanity, you were torn to shreads by its telekenetic powers. The atoms and molecules of your body ripped apart one by one, starting from your hands and feets to then the rest of your body. You die in great pain, just outside the Eldridge's docking pad in space. The people rejoice as their evil leader has met with a very harsh death. You are not of humanity's chosen, you are but a demon. You will die out, soon.
AC is the anti-christ, AC is the anti-christ!!
I posted this in defense as I felt that my intelligence ws being mocked by this fool. I in no way have implied in my posts that I am evil, yet he mocked this quote with a joke. I am all for jokes, but not at my be hath. AC I did not get involved in your scouffel with Miang, or even your banning. I kpt my distance. But this direct attack on me, was uncalled for. I will reap every opportunity that passes my way to cause you harm. I am not as fanatical about Xenogears as some of you others are, who am I kidding, I am fanatical.
[this message was edited by Jeffrey on Thu 2 Nov 02:33]
Posts: 15
| Location: Shevat
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| | | "Re(4):Eldridge" , Thu 2 Nov 10:25
Leave my friend alone, you pig.
You were not hurt by that statement, and I agree with him.
You should of been banned forever.
Destiny has but one soul.
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| Location: Jugend
| Registered: Wed 13 Sep 2000 12:51 |
| | "Re(1):Eldridge" , Wed 1 Nov 19:41:
Sigh.. If you're to talk about time-space postulate advanced by Einstein (also known to many as Restrained Relativity Theory, or RRT), then I'm afraid you're wrong... Yes, the faster one is moving, the longer he lives COMPAIRED to a reference source (for example, people in space in reference of people on earth), but the age difference in most realistic of cases won't be phenomenal, i remmeber calculating that even if one moves at 80% of speed of light, he'll only gain 30 or so years... Now... Notice that this whole theory works only in comparation theory... If you have no reference source (such as Earth), the time for you in space shuttle seems to fly regularly, and if you're to die at age of 76, it will seem that you lived 76, and not more or less... Since you can't comapire your time with that of earth... Now, if we suppose that "they didn't age at all", then let's consider that this can theorically be attained if you reach the speed of light.... At speed of light (3x10^8 m/s), waves are no longer "waves", since their period limits to infinity, thus effectivelly "fixing" your existance to one pecular moment for the reference source.... But for you, the one on the ship, the time still flies by normally (blergh.. makes me think of those *delta T = 1 / gamma T* formulas)... So no, fast space travelling doesnt grant you eternal life... Unless not in a sense... Sure, if you fly to space and comeback to earth, it's pretty possible that your 10 year flight will be seen as a 20 year one on earth..... But I dont think that's the case of Elridge... That, and the fact that when you travel though a star system, you better not hurl yourself at speed of light, or you might crash into something :)
Anyway, I might have some minor mistakes (my college astrophysics course was 2 years ago, so I prolly forgot some things), but basicly that's the way it is in real life :))
However, if it's not what you ment, I'd be glad to hear our your hypotheses, especially if they are based on the game theories, and not real physics :)
Best Regards
Kostjan
http://www.xgamers.com
http://www.xtreme-networks.com
Design And Digital Art Department
[this message was edited by kostjan on Wed 1 Nov 19:45]
Posts: 45
| Location: Montreal Canada
| Registered: Thu 21 Sep 2000 14:26 |
| | |  "Re(2):Eldridge"
, Thu 2 Nov 11:02:
All righty... I'm not really one of your fans (ack! Don't burn me at the stake!) but I was the one who examined the information Jeffery gave to me (he taped part of his gameplay and I read the three screens shown in that buried library or whatever). I'm not a mathematician or a physicist but I was interested in the ELDRIDGE explanation included in the texts, and I've read a few books that concerned the theories included (Uncertainty Principle, Cosmic Wave solution --S Matrix-- and Probability Waves). I despise math (and accordingly can only be a "fan" of physics), so forgive me if I don't know what exactly your numbers (fuzzy math! Die Bush!) mean. I do remember that the ELDRIDGE explanation mentioned an absolute object, or absolute frame of reference being produced and used by the ship itself. If the absolute frame of reference is a part of the ship, would this solve the aging discrepancy? The explanation did say, in short, that the Eldridge was indeed moving at the speed of light--not 99% of it, but 100% (the authors took into account the infinite energy required to reach such speeds and, as I continued to read, explained how the Eldridge acquired the infinite energy needed... See my memo-- if Jeff ever posts it). Oh well, I guess none of these postulations mean anything either way, as we have recently proven that the speed of light is not the limit. Has anyone else heard about the cesium-300x photon thing?
"If I Die Today I'll Be A Happy Phantom"
[this message was edited by Jaerdaph on Thu 2 Nov 11:16]
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| | Registered: Thu 2 Nov 2000 10:46 |
| | | "Re(3):Eldridge" , Thu 2 Nov 14:29
Oh, but maths are so beautiful!!! (or so say math professors, who have 2 or more PhDs in math, and who live in their own little mathematical world)... But yes, sometimes I agree with them... Yet I don't think I likemaths a lot.. But studying on Computer Science faculty, 75% of my courses are maths.... And that's where you start to hate them... And whoever said that Calculus 3 is one of hardest maths there is.. Well, I go tnews for you (calc3 was tough, but is a joke compaired to some things).. Anyway.... I'd rather be playing RPGs like Xenogears than doing Maths tho ;)
Best Regards
Kostjan
http://www.xgamers.com
http://www.xtreme-networks.com
Design And Digital Art Department
Posts: 49
| Location: Montreal Canada
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| | | "Re(4):Eldridge" , Thu 2 Nov 14:21
To answer Jaerdaph's and AC questions:
I guess no references on modern relativist theory was used for Xenogear's storyline, which isn't, I guess, very surprising: as in every rpg (or most of them, at least), Fantasy/sci fi predominates the real aspects... I mean, nothing i slike escaping the dullness of the real world?
Einstein, however, in his works, noted that humans will never be able to reach the speed of light, just because of the nature of it.
One of his two postulates on that matter are (if i remember correctly): "the speed of light is the same in all directions" (other postulate being "laws of physics are same for all universe").. What that means, that light and it's speed isn't really a vector to which u can associate something. Light is a constant recombination of photons, and the speed of the reaction cannot be matched, nor it's direction can be taken.
But don't worry... Even 1% of speed of light is to be reached first by humankind.... :)
As for AC's question, theorically, the people on board of a ship will live and die exactly the same way they'd lived and died on Earth... For them, a life would be somewhere between 60 and 80 years in regular cases. However, to observers OUTSIDE the ship, it'll seem as infinity... Similar effect would be if one approaches a Black Hole to some distance (provided he doesnt gets torn apart by gravitational matters). :)
Anyway.. Sorry if I messed up the explanations or made myself unlcear somewhere.. I'm studying these things in french, and might mixup therminology etc... :)
Best Regards
Kostjan
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http://www.xtreme-networks.com
Design And Digital Art Department
Posts: 48
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| | | "Re(5):Eldridge" , Thu 2 Nov 15:15
To shorten things a bit.. for you math-headed people out there.. as you go faster and faster, approaching light speed, the mass of the traveling body increases.. making it harder and harder to accelerate the body more, because you've got more and more mass to shove around. So, as the mass of the body heads screaming towards infinity, so does the energy required to move the object.
Fun, fun, fun.
However, there *is* a shortcut, handily also provided by Einstein. Al was a clever fellah. Please note, in the Xenogears opening, the diagram of a funnel.. the classic representation of a singularity distorting space.
Einstein viewed mass as causing a compression of local space, much like what would happen if you dropped a softball onto a bedsheet held flat between two people. In theory, if you could create something all-fired heavy enough to crunch the space between two points to nothing you could cease to exist in one place & reappear in the other.
A spacefold, in other words.
The wonder of such a spacefold is, it finks out of Realativistic Velocity so time does not get whacky in transit.
Oroboros
Infinity likes safe drivers...
Posts: 11
| | Registered: Sun 22 Oct 2000 10:16 |
| | | "Re(6):Eldridge" , Thu 2 Nov 17:49
Hmm... One of theories surrounding the nature of Black Hole is exactly that: "time-space bends that allow you to be teleported from one place of universe to another"... But then again, not that we're standing a big chance of getting this proved in our lifetime.. Sigh...
Btw, for those of you who are thinking "wtf are they talking about? time-space bends??!?", then I'd like to point that Einstein views the world according Lobachevsky's Geometry (4 dimensions and +, curve based), whereas 95% of people on Earth perceive th eworld using Euclidean geometry (3D, xyz).. For Einstein, the Moon doesn't fall on Earth because it goes not in rounds, but in strait line in it's space-time, which is curved around the earth (Newton, however, thought that the Moon falls on Earth, but due to it's constant centripedal acceleration, always misses)... Now THAT's what I call "fun fun fun"... :))
Best Regards
Kostjan
http://www.xgamers.com
http://www.xtreme-networks.com
Design And Digital Art Department
Posts: 50
| Location: Montreal Canada
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| | | "Re(7):Eldridge" , Fri 3 Nov 10:30:
Strange that we begin school with Euclidean geometry, when all along we've been applying it to the wrong kind of space. It's like Flatlanders realizing that they've been walking over a blanket all their lives. Kostjan-- What is Einstein's equation that describes the effect that matter-energy has on space-time? (if your keyboard's capable of all those funky symbols). I'm right-brained... And unfortunately I'll never realize the "beautiful super-symmetry" of the universe through mathematics. But anyway-- about the Eldridge.
The library that Jeff had me examine also mentioned that the ELDRIDGE uses a "perpetual engine" based on the S-Matrix solution to the reciprocals produced in the Uncertainty Principle. I understand where the Uncertainty Principle leads (...essentially to bogus kittens and probability waves), but what is the S-Matrix solution, Kostjan?
"If I Die Today I'll Be A Happy Phantom"
[this message was edited by Jaerdaph on Fri 3 Nov 10:32]
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| | Registered: Thu 2 Nov 2000 10:46 |
| | | "Re(8):Eldridge" , Fri 3 Nov 14:04:
Hmm..... My last physics course was taken almost a year and half ago, and not being big formulas fanatic, I don't think I can dish you most of them.... Enstein was a very bright dude, and it wasn't a matter of formulas to him, but whole perception of the world, backed up by very crafty theories... So sorry, I just can't answer your equation quesiton... :(
I might be wrong, but it sounds like a fictional explanation to me... And i never heard of S Matrixes either... A matrix, as you may know, is a table.... (any table in fact is a matrix)... Now, they are very handy solving complex equations in linear algebra, and there are many different techniques (most basic one being Gauss-Jordan's, I think) to do so... Unfortunatelly, I have hard time seeing how "uncertainety" can be soved by a matrix.... So my call is that they just try to impress people with loud words ;))
Best Regards
Kostjan
http://www.xgamers.com
http://www.xtreme-networks.com
Design And Digital Art Department
[this message was edited by kostjan on Sat 4 Nov 08:10]
Posts: 55
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| | | "Re(9):Eldridge" , Mon 6 Nov 10:24
Oh well, thanks anyway Kost! :)
"If I Die Today I'll Be A Happy Phantom"
Posts: 2
| | Registered: Thu 2 Nov 2000 10:46 |
| |  "Re(1):Eldridge"
, Wed 1 Nov 18:35
Really? Can you explain it, if possible?
Hehe, after MONTHS without playing XG, Im getting interested again!
"Each hour injuries
The last one slays"
- Latin Proverb
Posts: 2
| | Registered: Sun 29 Oct 2000 17:41 |
| | | "Re(2):Eldridge" , Thu 2 Nov 08:31
Now that I think of it, I remember hearing that Tayra/Melchior studied Nanotechnology...what if the humans in the Eldridge used that technology to preserve their lives, just as Krelian and others did in the far future of that world?
Just my opinion and theory, what do you think?
"Each hour injuries
The last one slays"
- Latin Proverb
Posts: 3
| | Registered: Sun 29 Oct 2000 17:41 |
| | | "Re(3):Eldridge" , Thu 2 Nov 08:32
Damn...I meant Taura! hehe
"Each hour injuries
The last one slays"
- Latin Proverb
Posts: 4
| | Registered: Sun 29 Oct 2000 17:41 |
| | | "Re(2):Eldridge" , Thu 2 Nov 02:15
maybe it was all genetics and clone bodies, the way the gazel, cain, krelian, and zephyr maintained longevity. and many believe today that the human body technically has no limit, it simply has a gene that tells the cells to stop reproducing (im paraphrasing from memory, i could be wrong). what if we turned that gene off? who knows. im just speculating i might just be talking out of my ass.
Unda Ex Machina
-bobby-
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| Location: Visalia CA
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| | | "Life Extension Experiments..." , Thu 2 Nov 07:30
Ageing is, at least in part, a side effect of genetic degredation. The DNA molecule strips a bit of it's protective capping molecules off each time it replicates, eventually resulting in a nonviable strand of code.
No DNA, no cell.
Of course, quality of life is already failing as the code breaks down, so the person whose DNA is slowly getting split end frizzies will probably die before all the DNA in their cells gives out. Scientists have been experimenting with various critters, trying to strengthen those caps in an effort to learn how to extend human life. They've had remarkable success actually, especially with a species of worm that they managed to increase the lifespan of by about 5 times if memory serves.
Pretty neat stuff, though we'll probably all have kicked off by the time we see much human-based progress.
As to the people of the Eldridge no ageing.. well.. there's not a whole olot *said* about the Eldridge... so I shall decline comment on it.
Oroboros
Infinity likes safe drivers...
Posts: 10
| | Registered: Sun 22 Oct 2000 10:16 |
| | | "Re(1):Life Extension Experiments..." , Fri 3 Nov 02:32
all i know is that the Zohar was used much like a vacuum cleaner. it was to "suck up" energy wherever it could find it, including other dimensions and such. this is how the wave existence was "pulled" or "sucked up" into our dimension. but in order to pierce the space/time fabric to go into other dimensions takes tremendous energy in itself, much more than the entire earth is capable of producing today. maybe the magnetic abnormal matter mentioned in perfect works was somehow used here.. not sure. anyway. maybe this had something to do with the longevity also? maybe not. who knows
Unda Ex Machina
-bobby-
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Jeffrey
Raine
