Original message
| |  "Psychoalayzing Fei as a Patient"
, Sun 4 Feb 10:29
As you should all know by this time, Khan also minored in psychology, that was why he knew what was going on and could do therapy for Fei. In other words Khan was a part time shrink. Notice that he is also an expert at hypnosis and created the Fei persona to seal in Id.
Anyhow, I'm going to major in psychology, so let me give him a diagnosis.
From all I have seen from the game. I am 100% sure that Fei was afflicted with multiple-personality disorder as a result severe child abuse when he was a child. He was neglected by his father, who was a military man and was out of town most of the time anyway, and he was seriously abused by his mother, who turned out to be Miang. She probably, beat him, tortured him, and used him for sexual pleasure against his will. Fei was too afraid to tell his dad when he came home, so the feelings brooded, and Khan didn't know what was going on. On top of all that, Karen took Fei on trips to Solaris where intense, painful experiments were conducted on him in which he was strapped to a bed and electrocuted and injected with experimental drugs. With nowhere to run and no where to hide, Fei attempts to espcape mentally to happy thoughts only...(i.e. kicking the ball before mommy went crazy.) Anyhow, Khan began to suspect something strange one day and came home to check on the family. That was the day of the encounter with Grahf. I think that a part of Fei intentionally killed his mother. The personality known to him as Id. It is the destructive personality and the keeper of all Fei's repressed thoughts.
The game is wrong. There is a very big difference between schizophrenia and MPD, and I say Fei only has the later. He does show symptoms of cataconic schizophrenia once in a while with delusions, hallucinations, and that long state of inanimation when he was found paralyzed in that cave.
Posts: 52
| | Registered: Wed 18 Oct 2000 13:32 |
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| |  "More in detail..."
, Mon 5 Feb 15:00
First off, my personal preference tends to psychosocial, cognitive, and biological factors as a cause for psychological illness, as they have the strongest support from research (where psychodynamic theories about id, ego, and superego are generally hodgepodge and have little scientific evidence).
As to Fei's diagnosis...
The symptoms of schizophrenia are grouped into three major categories: positive symptoms (excesses of thought, emotion and behavior), negative symptoms (deficits of thought, emotion, and behavior) and psychomotor symptoms. Fei does not demonstrate to any particular degree these symptoms. Perhaps slight negative symptoms (slight alogia demonstrated by the constant "..." quotes) and did, for a while, demonstrate catatonia (a psychomotor symptom). However, he did not demonstrate the other symptoms such as social withdrawl, and a blunted/flat affect.
The diagnosis the game provided (via Citan) was dissociative identity disorder.
My first suspician actually tended towards dissociative fugue. But the DSM-IV, we check that Fei
1. had sudden, unexpected travel away from home or one's customary place of work, with inability to recall one's past
2. Confusion about personal identity or assumption of new identify
3. significant distress or impairment.
It's clear that Fei suffered from these symptoms (as he did not recall the murders in the sewers, etc., and became Id to replace The Coward).
However, the assumption of a new personality tended to revert back to the older personality, which leads one to suspect that perhaps he suffered from dissociative identity disorder.
Once again, back to the glorious DSM-IV... DID is defined by the following symptoms:
1. The presence of two or more distinct identities or personality states.
2. Control of the person's behavior recurrently taken by at least two of these identities or personality states
3. An inability to recall important personal information that is too extensive to be explained by ordinary forgetfulness.
Fei's "Id" identity (a subpersonality) was clearly different from his normal identity. He also had an identity as "the coward", the other subpersonality.
In this case, the Id identity had a one-way amnesiac relationship with the other two personalities. The awareness was clearly not mutual. However, the co-conscious subpersonality (Id and The Coward, in this case) is almost always a "quiet observer", who watches the actions and thoughts of the other subpersonalities but does not interact with them. The coward clearly displays this, but Id seems to have knowledge of both Fei and The Coward, which is highly-unusual. This leads us to believe that the true dominant personality may be Id and not Fei, since Fei's personality is also co-conscious relative to the others.
As for the reason for this disorder, I find the behavioral view to be the best explanation (as once again, I find the psychodymanic view having little scientific merit). But for the sake of argument, the psychodymanic view would say that Fei, having experienced severe trauma in his childhood, came to fear the dangerous world he lived in and took flight from it in the form of Id (a personality that could defend himself against the world). Id, in turn, locked away "The Coward" who could not handle the world and took control. Id acted out the way he did because the passivity of The Coward (who was, by all accounts, a good and proper child) caused severe pain (since his father ignored him and his mother abused him). The main problem with this argument is that many children suffer from extreme child abuse, but the occurance of DID is extremely low. So...
The behavioral view believes that the dissociation is a response learned through operant conditioning. Fei, in order to forget the trauma of his childhood, would escape to happier times (kicking the ball) which would lead to a drop in anxiety. The more he did this, the more it was reinforced. However, the continued abuse caused yet another dissociation (into Id) to free himself from the situation. Thus, it would be assumed that in times of great stress, Fei would become Id to alleviate the anxiety and forget the event.
What I propose is the following.
Fei originally suffered from dissociative fugue, as originally he displayed symptoms more aligned with that than with DID (as he spent more time as Id than as The Coward... a replacement of personality). Many researchers argue that DID is actually caused by the practitioner, inadvertantly. I would have to agree, and would thus call this an iatrogenic case, caused by Kahn. In fact, Kahn admits to creating the current "Fei" personality to subdue the Id personality. Thus, while Fei originally suffered from dissociative fugue, Kahn later blew the situation up into full blown DID.
This, I think, is perhaps a slightly more complete analysis. :)
Now I have to get back to Systems Architecture class. Mmmmm.. MIPS processor... yummy.
-TC
erau qssi ssaym
Posts: 311
| Location: California
| Registered: Tue 25 Jul 2000 17:4 |
| | | "Re(1):More in detail..." , Thu 8 Feb 17:42
Yeah, but Multiple Personality Disorder (when you have more than 2 alters) is the worst possible Dissociation Disorder, right?
Fithos Lusec Wecos Vinosec
Posts: 67
| | Registered: Wed 18 Oct 2000 13:32 |
| | | "Re(2):More in detail..." , Tue 27 Feb 17:40
Well, it's still a pseudo-disorder since we're not sure if it necessarily exists before visiting a therapist.
Either way, there's no "worst" disorder. All those disorders can be very debilitating, just as mood disorders and anxiety disorders can be.
-TC
erau qssi ssaym
Posts: 379
| Location: California
| Registered: Tue 25 Jul 2000 17:4 |
| | | "Re(1):More in detail..." , Mon 5 Feb 16:07
I wonder if the game creators had all of this in mind when they thought of this part.
Posts: 15
| Location: SC
| Registered: Tue 2 Jan 2001 10:22 |
| | | "Re(1):More in detail..." , Mon 5 Feb 15:18
Hm.. You were real bored to write that all up?? I almost fell asleep reading it.. hehe :))
Like you said, f**k computers, become a psychologist... :)
-KJ who prefers MFLOPS to MIPS, cause floating point is sexier
Posts: 400
| Location: Montreal Canada
| Registered: Thu 21 Sep 2000 14:26 |
| | | "Re(2):More in detail..." , Mon 5 Feb 22:29
I've got a running petition to add "Lego Mania" to the DSM-IV :)
-TC
erau qssi ssaym
Posts: 322
| Location: California
| Registered: Tue 25 Jul 2000 17:4 |
| | "Re(1):Psychoalayzing Fei as a Patient" , Sun 4 Feb 18:22
One thing I thought about is that Id, Fei, and the child all are complete personalities meaning that they each have an id, ego, and superego. If I remember right, when Id was talking to Citan, Id said that he could destroy him right then and Citan ask " Then why don't you?", it doesnt' show much but it could mean that he has an very very small superego.
Posts: 14
| Location: SC
| Registered: Tue 2 Jan 2001 10:22 |
| | "Re(1):Psychoalayzing Fei as a Patient" , Sun 4 Feb 12:09
yeah, Fei must be a psychologist's dream ^_^ I think you've pretty much got it all, although Fei did tell Khan what was happening, but in the words of the game 'Khan was too busy with his work and didn't hear a word Fei said'.
I don't think the game ever called Fei a schizophrenic. Either way, like you already mentioned, it's multiple personality syndrome or dissassociative identity disorder that he has, not schizophrenia.
"Have you ever been in love?" Kissoon replied.
"Yes I think so."
"Then you've been to Quiddity twice. Once the first night you slept out of the womb. The second occassion the night you lay beside the woman you loved. Or man was it?" He laughed. "Whichever."
"Quiddity is the sea."
"Quiddity is the sea. And in it are islands called the Ephemeris."
"I want to go there." Jaff breathed.
"You will. One more time you will."
"When?"
"The last night of your life. That's all we ever get."
-Exerpt from The Great and Secret Show by Clive Barker
Posts: 141
| Location: Boston MA
| Registered: Sat 29 Jul 2000 17:51 |
| | | "Re(2):Psychoalayzing Fei as a Patient" , Sun 4 Feb 14:04:
I've always thought each of the personalities needed his own diagnosis
Schizophrenia: "Mental disorder marked by loss of contact with reality, personality disintegration, and often hallucination." Or more simply: "Loss of participation in the external world."
From the paper "Neurosis and Psychosis" by Sigmund Freud: "Neurosis is the result of a conflict between the ego and the id, whereas psychosis is the analogous outcome of a similar disturbance in the relations between the ego and the external world.
It used to be that the neurosis/psychosis categories were the main way to group mental disorders. That isn't really the case anymore. But at least previously, schizophrenia was termed a psychotic disorder and Disassociative Identity Disorder a neurotic one. This makes perfect sense in terms of Xenogears. The Coward is generally referred to as the super-ego when looking at the game in congruence with Freud's theories. But before Id and Fei 'appeared' he was essentially the ego. He then loses touch with the real world, retreating to live inside his own mind. Thus, the schizophrenia/psychosis. The DID/neurosis is seen between Fei(now the ego, as the Coward has graduated to other things) and Id. They are the only ones that fight over who gets to be in at least superficial control.
EDIT: Didn't look far enough through my notes
Extrapolated from "The Loss of Reality in Neurosis and Psychosis:
In neurosis(NS), the ego supresses a piece of the id. It therefore needs another path. NS is also called an instance of repression that has failed. Thus: DID. NS avoids coming into contact with the reasons for that repression. Ie: Fei makes Id handle those things.
In psychosis(PS), the ego withdraws from reality, in service of the id. Nor is there is any restriction on the id. Thus: The-Coward-as-ego gives up the 'front' position to Id. He is in sole power until Kahn instantiates the personality of 'Fei'. PS completely remodels reality, replaces it. The Coward lived solely in the world that he wanted.
Isis
"What you know you can't explain but you feel it. You've felt it your entire life; that there's something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is but it's there like a splinter in your mind driving you mad." -Morpheus
[this message was edited by Isis on Sun 4 Feb 14:19]
Posts: 13
| Location: Glittering Stone
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| | | "Re(2):Psychoalayzing Fei as a Patient" , Sun 4 Feb 13:49
Wait up Cain...didn't good ol' doc say something about fei having MPD, "in other words he's a schizophrenic" or something? If so, the game creators were confused and wrong. Anyhow, you have the actual script, so could you please confirm this for me?
Posts: 53
| | Registered: Wed 18 Oct 2000 13:32 |
| | | "Re(3):Psychoalayzing Fei as a Patient" , Mon 5 Feb 16:08
Actually, yes.
Citan discusses Fei's disorder on the Yggdrasil with Sigrd just after the fall of Entrenak and refers to him as having Disassociative Identity Disorder; he follows up by stating how intrigued he was at being able to converse with an actual schitzophrenic (I haven't the SLIGHTEST idea how to spell that!).
I would guess that this was just bad translation since a lot of the other research apparent in the game seems to be well executed.
-ZR
-actually, I think they even refer to him as having MPD, too, but I'm not sure about that . . . oh, well.
"And there was Silence in the House of Judgement" -- Oscar Wilde
Posts: 19
| Location: the ninth level of Hell
| Registered: Tue 12 Sep 2000 12:4 |
| | | "Re(3):Psychoalayzing Fei as a Patient" , Sun 4 Feb 16:40
I could probably check it out sometime tonight but I thought Doc said Fei had multiple personalities disorder and not scitzophrenia. The reason for this would be obviuous since Scitzophrenia is totally different its more along the lines of people hearing voices in their head. I wish I was scitzophrenic it would do wonders for my writing.
Interesting how nobody seems to know or understand the 4th personality that they briefly mentioned in the game. I'd have taken references to that out of the game.
I'd love to chat longer but I'm having an old friend for dinner. Bye
Posts: 615
| Location: Jugend
| Registered: Tue 1 Aug 2000 1:51 |
| | | "Re(4):Psychoalayzing Fei as a Patient" , Sun 4 Feb 18:26
Fei has a 4th alter? And who would that be?
Posts: 54
| | Registered: Wed 18 Oct 2000 13:32 |
| | | "Re(5):Psychoalayzing Fei as a Patient" , Sun 4 Feb 19:07
During the time Fei was in carbon freeze, the fourth personality, a sort of blank, was at the forefront of the mind. Id, the Coward, and Fei had all reccessed deeper within. Although I don't think he really needed to be termed a personality*shrug* As DarkSabre said, they should haven't bothered with such a reference.
Isis
"What you know you can't explain but you feel it. You've felt it your entire life; that there's something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is but it's there like a splinter in your mind driving you mad." -Morpheus
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