Original message
| |  "The Emperor of Darkness and silly hats"
, Wed 28 Feb 09:21
I've wondered about that funny little horned-mushroom-skullish piece of headgear that Graafh kicks butt in.
I've theorized that his hat has something to do with whatever method he used to run around in other peoples' bodies. My reasoning for this is as follows.
1. Graafh is always seen in his funny hat.
2. When Fei jumps into Alpha Weltall to talk to Kahn, Graafh instantly takes over, at which point his sprite visibly changes from that of Wiseman to that of Graafh. This means that he can change his form instantly, meaning that his hat and cloak obviously aren't just things he keeps on his shelf.
3. In the big flashback sequence, when Lacan vows to destroy the world, we first see Lacan as Id (the Contact's body). When he finishes this vow, he is in Graafh's costume, as the narrative explains that "Lacan became Graafh... and the world was destroyed.
4. So far, I haven't heard much describing the exact mechanism by which Lacan started taking over bodies. Granted, I don't have PW and I can't read/speak Japanese, but so far I haven't heard of any translation describing this.
It would seem to me that Lacan started out his career as Emperor of Darkness in his original body (with a makeover similar to Id's), but earned the funny hat and cape after discovering how to become immortal. Thus, that cool cinematic/landscape/quoting sequence actually covers a passage of time in which Lacan starts as himself and ends as Graafh. Perhaps the suit somehow houses his consciousness, but is immaterial when the other personalities are dominant.
Another theory: could it be possible that Graafh encouraged Id to adopt attire similar to that Lacan adopted after contacting Zohar? This would explain the identical sprites...
I have sworn eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.
-Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 8
| | Registered: Mon 26 Feb 2001 14:39 |
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Replies:
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| |  "Re(1):The Emperor of Darkness and silly hats"
, Wed 28 Feb 17:56
Ok we've covered this a great deal in previous threads so I suggest going through them to get your answers.
Essentially we believe that Grahf uses the Urobolus ring to pass his conscioussness into other host bodies. This is the same method Miang uses and since the two seem kinda close in the game it does make sense that the two have a long history. I suspect that the costume is just designed to hide his identity from the player nothing more. ID and Grahf are essentially the same thing as you mentioned I've done long posts on it before and right now I really cant be bothered rewriting them. The short version is that the part of Fei's psyche designed for contact related roles is his ID and when an event traumatic enough happens to Fei, his psyche splits and the Id part becomes a seperate personality.
I'd love to chat longer but I'm having an old friend for dinner. Bye
Posts: 758
| Location: Jugend
| Registered: Tue 1 Aug 2000 1:51 |
| | | "Re(2):The Emperor of Darkness and silly hats" , Thu 1 Mar 13:57
I don't think that Grahf is like Id. Almost everybody says that but Id just seems like a personal thing that Fie had in his childhood and Fie created Id. Even though Grahf came out because of an personal expierence also it just seemed like Lacan became Grahf and didn't create him in his mind.
I am the A and the Z
the Beginning and the End
the First and the Last.
That just doesn't sound as good.
Posts: 21
| Location: SC USA
| Registered: Tue 2 Jan 2001 10:22 |
| | | "Re(3):The Emperor of Darkness and silly hats" , Thu 1 Mar 15:22
Grahf is to Lacan as Id is to Fei. (Having any horrible SAT flashbacks?)
Grahf and Lacan were a good deal more differentiated from each other though. Looking at them as similar to Fei and Id shows how Grahf's essence was able to split and pass on in two different ways. Part of him was reborn as Fei(and possibly others before that). And the other perpetuated as Grahf, taking over bodies as needed.
Of course, looking at those two parts as the ego and id of the original Lacan could get messy. Because then Fei is really the sub-ego of ego-Lacan, and Id is the sub-id of ego-Lacan. And Kahn must be the surrogate-ego of id-Lacan and....
Isis
"What you know you can't explain but you feel it. You've felt it your entire life; that there's something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is but it's there like a splinter in your mind driving you mad." -Morpheus
Posts: 49
| Location: Glittering Stone
| Registered: Wed 31 Jan 2001 14:50 |
| | |  "Re(2):The Emperor of Darkness and silly hats"
, Thu 1 Mar 05:29
Mah,I don't think that Grahf uses the Urobolus ring to pass his conscioussness into other host bodies cause if you noticed it Miang have to die to pass his conscioussness to another women,Grahf no.I think that he have gained this power from Zohar,but now I don't know how.I belive that the hat is a simple hat,probably Grahf uses it to "delete his face":he change body, but he don't change is mind, so the important for him is to mantain his unity in mind and body, and he do this by putting on his hat,that make him feel nothing had changed.
"An eternity for a man.....but a moment for a god"
Posts: 4
| Location: Riccione (Italy)
| Registered: Sat 10 Feb 2001 11:21 |
| | | "Re(3):The Emperor of Darkness and silly hats" , Thu 1 Mar 07:41
Ok when I said we believe... I probably should have said I believe since I dont speak for everyone. If I remember correctly it was Myaru who originally threw the theory around although I could be wrong. Basically the fact of the matter is they dont discuss this in the game or PW to the best of my knowledge so these are only guesses. If you like them great if you dont then make up your own theories.
The comments about Miang are absolutely true she did have to die before she could pass on to another host but that's not to say that Grahf couldnt improve on the method. Also you're forgetting that Grahf first passed on to the next host body after Lacan died.
I'd love to chat longer but I'm having an old friend for dinner. Bye
Posts: 760
| Location: Jugend
| Registered: Tue 1 Aug 2000 1:51 |
| | | "Re(4):The Emperor of Darkness and silly hats" , Thu 1 Mar 12:27
quote:
Krelian:Hmm, according to the transferred record, it depicts... ...a similar wave frequency as expected. And... yes, the Urobolus Ring...! That is it, isn't it...? Miang and Lacan's actions... this explains everything. Elhaym... You were the 'mother'...
Elly:Mother...?
Krelian:Yes. This is what your genetic exon looked like before replacement... This is the conceptualized form of the intron which carries information that isn't supposed to exist. Observe, This is the Urobolus Ring which contains 'intron information' which only... ...exists in 'certain people'. Urobolus... if we were to anatomize such a thing... Wouldn't you be interested in what type of information it would have to offer us?
If Krelian is saying that the Urobolus ring is a factor existing only in women and is the reason Miang can become any woman, then Grahf wouldn't have it, nor would any other man. It is a bit unclear what he means though...he could be including the Contact in the 'certain people'.
Isis
"What you know you can't explain but you feel it. You've felt it your entire life; that there's something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is but it's there like a splinter in your mind driving you mad." -Morpheus
Posts: 48
| Location: Glittering Stone
| Registered: Wed 31 Jan 2001 14:50 |
| | | "Re(5):The Emperor of Darkness and silly hats" , Thu 1 Mar 18:59
"yes, the Urobolus Ring...! That is it, isn't it...? Miang and Lacan's actions..."
The section you posted doesnt really say that only women have Urobolus rings. What it does say is that the Urobolus ring explains Lacan's actions and lets be honest Grahf is essentially Lacan in the same way that Fei is ID. It doesnt directly say that Grahf swapped bodies using the method I mentioned but it doesnt disprove it either. The odds are that men also have a partial urobolus ring just like women. Only specific people have a full one and I'm guessing that those people would be the ones containing the animus. The fact is that with men there wasnt really any need for it to be used in Deus' plan. Theres plenty of things in our body which we have but dont use just take a look at the apendix or the fact we have backup organs.
I'd love to chat longer but I'm having an old friend for dinner. Bye
Posts: 762
| Location: Jugend
| Registered: Tue 1 Aug 2000 1:51 |
| | | "Re(6):The Emperor of Darkness and silly hats" , Fri 2 Mar 16:03
You are probaly right about men having a little of the urobouls ring in them. Sort of like men have X and Y chromozones and women have two X chromozones.
And while we are talking about the Fie\Lacan\Grahf\Id mumbo jumbo. Where did Fie learn his fighting technique? Wiseman said his father probaly taught him but Wiseman could be lying just to not bring up any supisions especialy since Fie was probaly too young.
I am the A and the Z
the Beginning and the End
the First and the Last.
That just doesn't sound as good.
Posts: 25
| Location: SC USA
| Registered: Tue 2 Jan 2001 10:22 |
| | | "Re(7):The Emperor of Darkness and silly hats" , Fri 2 Mar 16:28
Wiseman might have been pulling the 'certain point of view' act from Obi Wan Kenobi. Because Grahf taught Fei/Id to fight, and he was in Kahn's body when he did so. So it was Fei's father teaching, just not his father's mind.
Isis
"What you know you can't explain but you feel it. You've felt it your entire life; that there's something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is but it's there like a splinter in your mind driving you mad." -Morpheus
Posts: 51
| Location: Glittering Stone
| Registered: Wed 31 Jan 2001 14:50 |
| | | "More Newbie fiddling" , Fri 2 Mar 08:03
Hmmm... I guess that means that Grahf's transformation from Kahn's sprite to funny hat sprite is somewhat connected to ID and Fei's sprite/switching. Very enlightening. Probably has something to do with the Contact's inherent powers.
Does this mean that Grahf is an alternate personality of Lacan, however? Or is he just Lacan's volition?
Thanks for the help everyone.
I have sworn eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.
-Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 10
| | Registered: Mon 26 Feb 2001 14:39 |
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Lews Therin
Isis
