Original message
| |  "What you think of...?"
, Thu 8 Mar 10:18
In Xenogears are presented only four "Fei" (Abel,Kim,Lacan,Fei).Maybe they weren't the only.Whay you think of this?
"An eternity for a man.....but a moment for a god"
Posts: 12
| Location: Riccione (Italy)
| Registered: Sat 10 Feb 2001 11:21 |
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| |  "Re(1):What you think of...?"
, Thu 8 Mar 21:23:
Sorry, those were the only ones :). There were hundreds (if not thousands) of other people transmigrating; but they were just 'mundane' transmigration, simply ordinary incarnation with no specification or destination (unlike Fei and Elly, they had a purpose).
People were able to naturally transmigrate when they developed Ether abilities to fight off Solaris, sometime before the Nisan Lacan/Krelian/Sophia era.
The transmigration of Fei and Elly is destined and kept in bound by the Urobolus ring until the Contact frees the WE..
Miang/Krelian confirmed it at the final confrontation prior to fighting Opiomorph, and that Krelian's nanotechnology was able to supplement the 'lost' population due to the reincarnations.
It all returns to nothing. It all
comes tumbling down
tumbling down
tumbling
down.
[this message was edited by intangir on Thu 8 Mar 21:59]
Posts: 50
| Location: Triangle Island World of Balance
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| | | "Re(2):What you think of...?" , Fri 9 Mar 09:43
"The transmigration of Fei and Elly is destined and kept in bound by the Urobolus ring until the Contact frees the WE.."
From what I have seen there is not indication that the transmigrations will end once WE (the Wave Existance) is freed. The Urobolus ring still exists and unless it is removed logicaly Fei, Elly and even Miang will continue to reincarnate......
Infact what Grahf says seems to indicate otherwise....
"You still don't understand... even after your contact with the existence? I came to understand after my contact with the Existence that, even if Deus was destroyed... ...as long as humans still inhabit this land, Miang... Elhaym, will be born time and again. Then all living things may as well perish along with Deus itself. That's the only path to freedom. The path to release us from the eternal cycles of life, the tragedies of history and the spell of fate!"
If you have an information source that says otherwise please show it.
"People were able to naturally transmigrate when they developed Ether abilities to fight off Solaris, sometime before the Nisan Lacan/Krelian/Sophia era."
I had forgotten about that this is quite true. However this does not mean that 'Fei' had no other incarnations. It just means that Grahf only found one after 500 years meaning their is likely no more than one every 100 years maybe even 500-1000 years. Still this would limit the number of possible 'Fei's' within 4-100 as it is possible that the listed 'Fei's' are the only ones.
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| | Registered: Wed 7 Mar 2001 6:25 |
| | | "Re(3):What you think of...?" , Fri 9 Mar 14:24
Thats why Fei destroyed the Urobolus factor when Fei entered the path of sephirot. Grahf must of believed it was impossible to free the circle that bound elly, the contact, and miang, but that was stopped at the end.
Let The Light In...
Posts: 13
| | Registered: Sun 4 Mar 2001 16:44 |
| | | "Re(4):What you think of...?" , Mon 12 Mar 06:06
I do belive that the Uroburous is genetic. Correct me if I am wrong. But the introns are genetic material you cannot just kill something at point (a) and have the genes of every living creature at point (b) change..... Besides if this occured then why did Fei still have his memories and power? Why did Elly have all those of the 'Mother'. If the 'information' contained in the Uroburous was destroyed this would not be possible.
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| | Registered: Wed 7 Mar 2001 6:25 |
| | | "Re(5):What you think of...?" , Mon 12 Mar 16:15
So? If Urobolus is destryoed, of course Elly and Fei can still remember because they now have their memories back. Urobolus allows their introns to store memories for thier future selves. Since Urobolus is destroyed, they cant store thier memories.
Let The Light In...
Posts: 23
| | Registered: Sun 4 Mar 2001 16:44 |
| | | "Re(6):What you think of...?" , Thu 15 Mar 14:42:
I don't think you get what I was saying
Urobolus is genetic. This means that the creater Urobolus is completely seperate from the introns in which the data is stored. Furthermore if it is genetic the capability to store information is extremely likely to still exists.
Just because they fought a creature (an ugly one at that) does not mean they changed the genetic material of every single living being in the world....... Further more even if they couldn't store there memories the memories still exist and there is more than enough of them to create an endless cycle as it is....
[this message was edited by Xylix on Thu 15 Mar 17:21]
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| | Registered: Wed 7 Mar 2001 6:25 |
| | "Re(1):What you think of...?" , Thu 8 Mar 16:23
We had a long topic on this a while ago that seems to have disappeared... but you can find it in the Letters section of Guardian Angels (under "Spoilers"), near the bottom of the page. I think it's titled "Countless lives...", but the "Awakenings and Unlimited Power" might also contain some of the same theory.
Ah, those were the days...
Ja mata.
Amber Michelle
"On the heights all paths are paved with daggers." - Wheel of Time
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| | Registered: Tue 25 Jul 2000 2:55 |
| | "Re(1):What you think of...?" , Thu 8 Mar 10:39
This possibility has occured to me. It seems certain in my mind at least that all the 'Feis' that made contact with the Zohar reactor are the recorded Feis. The others not making contact did not have there memories carried. In such a case there could be hundred of Feis. Yet in such a case there would be hundreds of Ellys as well. This does make sense though it is unlikely that the Contact would always make 'Contact' with the Zohar Modifier.
If this is so Contact has become increasingly less important. Afterall Fei was able to use the Contact's powers without ever making contact. This may have been true to a part for Lacan as well. Though this seems to be false for Kim as his reaction to the soldiers killing Elly would have been quite differn't if that was so. Also as I have said before it explains the time gap a stronger contact would be more likely to survive to make a second, third or fourth contact......This as all assumptions on my part though. I have no access to PW and must rely mostly on what I have read and asorbed through the game itself.
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| | Registered: Wed 7 Mar 2001 6:25 |
| | | "Re(2):What you think of...?" , Thu 8 Mar 19:29
quote:
It seems certain in my mind at least that all the 'Feis' that made contact with the Zohar reactor are the recorded Feis.
By 'recorded' Feis, you are including Kim, correct? But I do not believe there was any evidence that he made contact with Zohar.
Isis
"What you know you can't explain but you feel it. You've felt it your entire life; that there's something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is but it's there like a splinter in your mind driving you mad." -Morpheus
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| | | "Re(2):What you think of...?" , Thu 8 Mar 12:47
I think they were the only,
also Graph mention that he waited 500 years for another "perfect" reincarnation of him...
So by that we know there were'nt any between fei and Lacan
"Its possible to have fun on a rainy day."
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| | | "Re(3):What you think of...?" , Fri 9 Mar 16:14
It sort of looks like that not every advent of a Fie or Elly was perfect. I just think this since Sophia looked different from Elly but that realy isnt much support.
I am the A and the Z
the Beginning and the End
the First and the Last.
That just doesn't sound as good.
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| Location: SC USA
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| | | "Re(3):What you think of...?" , Thu 8 Mar 18:00:
There were hundereds of incarnations of the Contact "Abel" The only PERFECT TRANSMIGRATIONS were when the contact met the Anti-Type. Abel And Elhaym, Kim and Elhaym, Lacan and Elhaym, and Fei and Elhyam are all perfect transmigrations. The ones where the contact did not meet the antitype were imperfect. Grahf had to wait 500 years for another perfect incarnation, or rebirth of Abel.
And as a side note, Not every Perfect Transmigration included a contact with Zohar. The contact with Zohar is just supposed to happen sometime in the future, not for every perfect or imperfect transmigration.
Let The Light In...
[this message was edited by God on Thu 8 Mar 20:08]
Posts: 13
| | Registered: Sun 4 Mar 2001 16:44 |
| | | "Re(4):What you think of...?" , Mon 12 Mar 06:14
I must disagree with the statement that 'Perfect' means that he met Elly. There is no indiction of this. Besides Fei had not met Elly when Grahf came after him. Krelian, Miang and Grahf at that time did not no where Elly was and I do belive Fei would have 'remembered' meeting her before. Afterall they have known eachother for....centuries.
However Id when talking about Grahf states that he waited for 500 years for a perfect 'reincarnation' of Fei. This implies exact same body or equivelently a perfectly matching genetic spectrum....
As for contact with Zohar at least 3 of the 4 made contact...all these where mentioned following the pattern Kim too would have made contact. This is of course possibly false, but with the lack of information it is equaly possibly true. Considering the pattern I do belive the evidence points to an actual contact and probably a death shortly following.....
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| | Registered: Wed 7 Mar 2001 6:25 |
| | | "Re(5):What you think of...?" , Mon 12 Mar 16:21:
So what if Fei did not meet Elly when Grahf came. A perfect transmigration occurs when the contact meets Elly and it does not have to occur right away. It can occur anytime.
I dont know if this is right, but Krelian did say something about the signs of the Anti-type showing somewhere during rhe middle of the first disc. Iam assuming that Elly's signature was able to be detected because of her meeting Fei. I dont know the relevaence of this, but it just came into my head.
Either way, a perfect transmigration, where the two meet, allows the contact to perform what he is supposed to do, thats what Grahf also wanted.
And both Fei and Elly always had a feelign that they've known eacother for centuries, they just couldnt' explain why, but they knew each other, they hint that several times.
Let The Light In...
[this message was edited by God on Mon 12 Mar 16:24]
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| | Registered: Sun 4 Mar 2001 16:44 |
| | | "Re(5):What you think of...?" , Mon 12 Mar 14:37
By 'perfect', Grahf was probably waiting for the Contact that is able to compress all its memories from ancient times to present into one entity; i.e. the Zohar scene - when Xenogears was borned.
Because Fei, with the help of Id and Khan, was able to do this, he is considered a 'perfect' Contact.
It all returns to nothing. It all
comes tumbling down
tumbling down
tumbling
down.
Posts: 59
| Location: Triangle Island World of Balance
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| | | "Re(4):What you think of...?" , Sat 10 Mar 06:03:
I have to agree with God on this one. The reason why Kim, Lacan and Abel were the only other incarnations mentioned was because they were the only ones who played a significant role in the storyline. Grahf waited 500 years for a perfect transmigration to appear so there could have been imperfect ones which appeared during between Lacan and Fei. As for the rest of history its doubtful that any of the other incarnations other then Fei and Kim actually made contact with Zohar since that would have affected the storyline. By all accounts its unlikely that Kim contacted Zohar but wouldnt it have been cool if he'd destroyed Zeboim after snapping like Lacan. Anyway bottom line there probably were other incarnations of Fei but they just werent worth mentioning since he just sat around painting all day.
Oh and there would be no more reincarnations of Fei and Elly after the game since the final boss was the Urobolus ring which was responsible for people particularly Fei, Miang and Elly being reincarnated. Without it they'd all just die presumably. By destroying the Urobolus ring they were free from the cycle of reincarnation from which they could never escape. Personally I'm not sure I'd turn down immortality unless there was something better on the otherside.
I'd love to chat longer but I'm having an old friend for dinner. Bye
[this message was edited by DarkSabre on Sat 10 Mar 18:11]
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| | | "Re(5):What you think of...?" , Sat 10 Mar 17:37:
quote:
"Dreams... A life of a man named Lacan.. And the lives of countless other men... All but dreams... Now that I am awake, those countless numbers of long, heartrending dreams are almost impossible to remember at all... In those dreams, I loved one woman... No matter the day, no matter the era... That did not change... Nor did her name..."
Fei's words, at the beginning of disc two. I don't think that he means 'countless numbers' to stand in for a mere four. He also mentions Elly being with him each time, so evidently a perfect transmigration is not defined simply by the Contact and Antitype meeting. As for why only four of the Contacts were mentioned in the game...as DarkSabre said, they were all that were necessary to the storyline.
Abel-he was the one who started it all.
Kim-A part of Emeralda's story.
Lacan-Because this time period had the most ties to the present day in the game. Krelian, Grahf, the Nisan-Solaris war...all crucial to the later story.
Fei-Enough said.
Matters would hardly have been improved by Elly and Fei reeling off a list of every one of their additional incarnations.
Isis
"What you know you can't explain but you feel it. You've felt it your entire life; that there's something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is but it's there like a splinter in your mind driving you mad." -Morpheus
[this message was edited by Isis on Sat 10 Mar 17:44]
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| | | "Re(6):What you think of...?" , Sat 10 Mar 23:33:
Actually, countless numbers is more then 4, you are right. But you are forgetting something. First of all, just because Fei said he always loved one woman (Elly), that doent mean he had to have met her. Of all the countless lived Fei lived, and including the ones that werent; perfect transmigrations, Fei still loved Elly. He wasnt consciously aware of it, but deep inside him, a part of him always loved her, his inner most feelings, the feelings and memories stored in his introns. There were one 4 lives that the contact lived that had Elly in his life, the rest, he didnt have her, but a part of him still loved her. If he had met elly more then 4 times, then it would play a significant role as it would mean a chance to stop the fate that the children of Deus would have to face. See no matter what, if the contact met Elly, he would fall in love because of the bond inside him.
And if I might add, Fei says in that quote u wrote that in those dreams (THE ONES OF HIM LIVING HIS 4 PERFECT TRANSMIGRATIONS) he loved one woman...Elly. He says he was only with Elly in THOSE 4 LIVES, hence I still stand on my point when I say that Contact and Elhaym only met 4 times.
Let The Light In...
[this message was edited by God on Sat 10 Mar 23:36]
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| | Registered: Sun 4 Mar 2001 16:44 |
| | | "Re(7):What you think of...?" , Sun 11 Mar 00:55:
quote:
And if I might add, Fei says in that quote u wrote that in those dreams (THE ONES OF HIM LIVING HIS 4 PERFECT TRANSMIGRATIONS) he loved one woman...Elly. He says he was only with Elly in THOSE 4 LIVES, hence I still stand on my point when I say that Contact and Elhaym only met 4 times.
I'm sorry, but I'm unclear on what you mean by that. In the quote I posted previously, Fei never said he met Elly in only those four lives.
Elly's counterpart to Fei's quote is this:
quote:
"Dreams... A life of a woman named Sophia... And the lives of countless other women... All but dreams... Now that I am awake, those countless numbers of long, heartrending dreams are almost impossible to remember at all... In those dreams, I loved one man... no matter the day, No matter the era... That did not change... Only his name..."
She knew his name changed(as he knew her's did not) and that implies she actually met him in each life, not that she simply had some longing for some unknown man.
Isis
"What you know you can't explain but you feel it. You've felt it your entire life; that there's something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is but it's there like a splinter in your mind driving you mad." -Morpheus
[this message was edited by Isis on Sun 11 Mar 01:00]
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| | | "Re(8):What you think of...?" , Sun 11 Mar 12:42:
Not nessessarily. Elly in that staement is only refffering to the 4 lives that she had met the Contact. She is talking about the countless lives she lived (The 4 perfect transmigrations). In those 4 lives she loved only one man, only his name changed.
Now if you were to talk about the rest of the countless lives she lived (the imperfect transmirgrations), still loved the contact deep inside, but she didnt have to meet him to know that. When she says the quote, she is only reffering the 4 lives because those are the only ones she can remember since she seems to only remember perfect transmigrations at that point in the game. Even the Gazel (I may be wrong on who said this), that there were only a few perfect transmigrations where the contact and anti-type met. Hence they only met 4 times. The other lives they lived, they never met eachother, but a part of them always loved eacother. Thats why they keep saying that throughout there countless lives they only loved eacother.
And Elly or Fei dont have to specifically say that there countless lives meant only the 4 perfect transmigrations. The game earlier on alrwady explains to us what a perfect transmigration is, and only 4 happened.
Let The Light In...
[this message was edited by God on Sun 11 Mar 12:46]
Posts: 20
| | Registered: Sun 4 Mar 2001 16:44 |
| | | "Re(9):What you think of...?" , Sun 11 Mar 15:58
Uh, could you please tell me where in the game/script you saw all of this? I can't recall any point where either Fei or Elly said anything about only four lives. And I read through the Gazel conversations and didn't notice anything about perfect transmigrations, so, if it was said at all, I guess it was someone else who mentioned it.
Isis
"What you know you can't explain but you feel it. You've felt it your entire life; that there's something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is but it's there like a splinter in your mind driving you mad." -Morpheus
Posts: 64
| Location: Glittering Stone
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