Original message
| |  "Xenosaga Details revealed"
, Sun 1 Apr 06:57
More Godly goodness taken from the GIA... hehe:
When Namco's new RPG subsidiary MonolithSoft, comprised of many ex-Xenogears teammembers, announced they were working on a game codenamed Project X, Xengears fans took note. When they unveiled the official title of Xenosaga -- written in the same font as Xenogears -- it was apparent the company was at the very least trying to build off the name recognition of Squaresoft's RPG. In a short teaser video, captured by IGNPS2, playing at the Tokyo Game Show, however, Namco has finally revealed that Xenosaga will indeed be a full-fledged Xenogears sequel.
The short video displayed only text over a watery background accompanied by music that sounded like a remix of Xenogears' "The Beginning and The End," but there were more than enough references to that title for fans to piece together how Xenosaga will fit into the epic story outlined in the first game. Most importantly, it seems MonolithSoft's RPG will be Episode I of the six-part story -- Xenogears itself was Episode V. As outlined in the Xenogears Perfect Works fan book, Episode I covers the period from 15,000 to 10,000 years before the crash of the Eldridge, making it a prologue to the events in Xenogears.
While any specific plot information is purely conjecture at this early point, a few firm details can be extracted from this one small point. First, Xenosaga will undoubtedly take place on a different planet from Square's game, and none of the recurring characters from Xenogears are likely to make an appearance. Since the main events in this section of the story are the creation of Zohar (specifically mentioned in the video) and "interplanetary weapon" Deus, it seems likely Xenosaga's plot will revolve around these two elements and end with the launch of the Eldridge. It also looks as though Xenosaga will have almost as wide a scope as the previous game. The trailer briefly flashes the Megaman-ish year 20XX, and later displays the date T.C. 4775. Xenogears Perfect Works places the adoption of the new calendar system, which stands for Transcend Christ, at the creation of the Zohar engine in 2510, meaning the game's story could span over 7000 years.
IGNPS2 also revealed a partial list of the MonolithSoft staff working on the game, many of whom are Xenogears veterans.
Director and Scenario Writer: Tetsuya Takahashi (also on XG)
Executive Producer: Masaya Nakamura
Producer: Hirohide Sugiura
Music Composition: Yasunori Mitsuda (also on XG)
Production Designer: Junya Ishigaki (Mechanical Designer on XG)
Additional Production Design: Kouichi Mugitani and Takumi Sakura
Art Director: Yasuyuki Honne (also on XG)
Character Designer: Kunihiko Tanaka (also on XG)
Screenplay: Sei Sato
Programming Director: Toshiaki Yajima
The biggest mystery left about Xenosaga, however, may be how Namco plans on producing a direct sequel (or in this case prequel) to a game from another company. It's highly unlikely that director Tetsuya Takahashi retained the rights to the Xenogears world after leaving Square, and Namco has made no mention of securing them from the company. Considering that Xenosaga will take place on a different world 15,000 years before Xenogears, the game may just be different enough to satisfy fans while stymieing Square's lawyers. We'll find out for sure when Xenosaga officially debuts on July 8th.
Thanks to Dr. Forester for additional
-----------------------------------------
Also, if you want to see the new logo for Xenosaga, just click here ^_^
-Ky
Remember that to dream is to stand upon the shores that border another world.... and there as always I shall wait for you........
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Replies:
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| |  "Re(1):Xenosaga Details revealed"
, Thu 5 Apr 00:15
Uhm, those were very gooooooooooood notice. The first chapter is the chapter I prefer most, so I am very happy for this. Ahem isn't here getting hot?
"Spend some quality time.... with the demon of mine!"
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| | "Re(1):Xenosaga Details revealed" , Sun 1 Apr 22:19
Please - allow me to laugh at you all as I gaze at the character sketch containing this information... that Clio Saga showed us two years ago. ^.^ Suckers.
However, it may not be what it seems. Trailers aren't exactly the best representation of the content of a game, especially at this stage. I mean, hey... as much as I'd love to gloat over being right when I used to post about this possibility, I think it's a little too early for that just yet. ^.~
Ja mata.
Amber Michelle
"On the heights all paths are paved with daggers." - Wheel of Time
"Sore demo wa... itsuka."
- Lezard because he's cool. ^.^
Posts: 361
| | Registered: Tue 25 Jul 2000 2:55 |
| | | "Re(2):Xenosaga Details revealed" , Sun 1 Apr 23:20
Are you referring to the ones that look like 'Sigurd' spin-offs?
It all returns to nothing. It all
comes tumbling down
tumbling down
tumbling
down.
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| | | "Re(3):Xenosaga Details revealed" , Tue 3 Apr 01:31:
No, actually - besides, we all know those must be Sigurd, or based on him... ^.^ Just like "Meo the Pirate" looks too much like Bart.
What I'm talking about is her sample character sheet that she posted in her mail section back when she was still at Harcourt-Vega. Someone asked her how she designed characters, and she gave us an example - in that example was the information that made me think that they were working on a prequel.
Back then - this was a LONG time ago - the PW was still one of those myths, so no one knew anything about the TC era, and no one recognized that part of the timeline when she put it on the document. That's what's so funny about it - it's SO obvious that the story is a part of the Episode I saga...
*shrug* But there's always the chance that she just pulled it out of thin air for our benefit. I personally think it was one of her true designs, but that's just me. ^.^
Ja mata.
Amber Michelle
"On the heights all paths are paved with daggers." - Wheel of Time
"Sore demo wa... itsuka."
- Lezard because he's cool. ^.^
[this message was edited by Myaru on Tue 3 Apr 01:32]
Posts: 367
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| | | "Re(4):Xenosaga Details revealed" , Thu 5 Apr 14:46
How did the character look like? I remember seeing one of her more recent character design of a man with some kind of high-tech garment in front a starry background. I thought that could've possibly been a concept art for Ep1, 'course that was before Xenosaga was officially announced and all was wishful thinking.
It all returns to nothing. It all
comes tumbling down
tumbling down
tumbling
down.
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| | "Re(1):Xenosaga Details revealed" , Sun 1 Apr 14:17
*really big smile spreads across my face*
"And there was Silence in the House of Judgement" -- Oscar Wilde
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| | "my idea" , Sun 1 Apr 11:58
I was thinking that the game was gonna start when the found the Zohar and go through time spanning hundreds of years. I also think that they would emphazise why Earth became untouchable.
I am the A and the Z
the Beginning and the End
the First and the Last.
That just doesn't sound as good.
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| | "Re(1):Xenosaga Details revealed" , Sun 1 Apr 11:56
I suggest that everyone chill at the prospect of a new game. While it is exciting, we have very few details and mainly idle speculation.
Hell, we dont' even know if it's ever going to leave Japan and get an english translation, leaving most of us out in the dark (and I don't think I'll be learning enough japanese just yet to play it :P)
MonolithSoft would be at the mercy of Namco for US release rights, and given the sales of Xenogears, it's not a sure thing to have it released here.
So, I think maybe we should all calm down, wait for July 8th (or was it June?) and sit back and talk about overanalyzing Xenogears :)
-TC
erau qssi ssaym
"We hope that rules and wisdom choke you" - Radiohead
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| | | "Re(2):Xenosaga Details revealed" , Sun 1 Apr 13:35
This is true, we ARE talking about the company that decided to translate Dragon Valor instead of Tales of Eternia (Even though it's pretty well established that the latter is in translation now).
But we also have to remember that given the celebrity status that the game achieved in the states AFTER it's printing was concluded that there's a bigger market for it here than in Japan. Granted, it's still not nearly as mainstream as Final Fantasy; but nearly every medium for video game coverage uses XG for compare & contrast with other well-written games (There was even a link to Zenogias.com in the letters section of RPGamer yesterday). That should count for something.
However, that which demands the most of my attention is that while the ol' group may be working their magic away at Monolith, there's no guarantee any translation staff given the project for an american release would do nearly as good a job as any of us would demand. Not to mention content edits, and whatnot.
So yeah, we're all excited, and with good reason. But we're not outta the woods yet. But at least we're part way there, no?
Remember that to dream is to stand upon the shores that border another world.... and there as always I shall wait for you........
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| | | "Re(3):Xenosaga Details revealed" , Sun 1 Apr 17:24
You're also subject to whether there will be enough of a market base to sell the game to. PS2s have sold well, but not quite the market saturation that was around at the time of FF7 and the PSX.
Note they're JUST now translating Tales of Eternia... on a system that's pretty well on its deathbed.
The game isn't complete yet. It's quite likely that if the Xbox and GameCube do really well and trump Sony's PS2, then the game could be cancelled due to budgetary concerns.
After all, there are only 10 million PS2s sold right now around the world. Let's say by X-mas there are 15 million PS2s total. And lets say that about 6 million of those PS2s are sold in the US.
Of those 6 million PS2s, each unit will have maybe 1 or 2 games bought for it (on average) a year.
If Xenosaga is a *great* game with great graphics and universal appeal, it could probably capture the *entire* RPG market at about 2 million total units shipped - assuming it's an amazing hit.
Realistically, this is extremely generous. Without the brand-name recognition of Square/Final Fantasy, it'd be quite lucky to sell 1 million units.
Even that isn't a guarantee of anything. Vagrant Story, a fairly universally acclaimed game, with great graphics and wonderful story - sold terribly in Japan, with only a modest success here in the US and in Europe.
Depending on Namco's financial situation, and the perceieved market for this game, and the quality of this game, we *might* see a world-wide release. It's probably 50/50 honestly.
And remember, this isn't Square, so don't expect an english version 3 months later, it'll probably be about 6-8 months for translation and Quality Assurance. At least. Plus marketing costs.
And after all that, we might have Xenosaga. A year or two after the Japanese have it (because Xenogears wasn't a huge hit). Assuming the game takes another year to develop (at least, realistically it's more like a year and a half to two years away), it'll be at least 2 years before we see it. And may even be 4 years before we see it.
And who knows if the PS2 will be dominant 4 years from now. There are soooo many factors to consider that getting really excited over the *prospect* of a prequel is just getting your hopes up.
Let's wait for an actual announcement of the game and what plans Namco has.
It just sucks when you get all excited about a game and then it never comes out. Just a warning :)
-TC
erau qssi ssaym
"We hope that rules and wisdom choke you" - Radiohead
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| | | "Re(4):Xenosaga Details revealed" , Thu 5 Apr 00:34
Well, you said that ps2 have to be the ruler to have Xenosaga on it, but isn't possible that, if other consoles (GAMECUBE or X-box)will take the role guide (I hope GAMECUBE will take it), Xenosaga will be port on them? Well, anyway, I hope It will find its way to us in someway!
After all, to buy a console or another is only a matter of money and time. I think I am going to buy GAMECUBE, cause it is from Nintendo ( I own nes,snes and n64,from Nintendo and Nintendo had always done well, maybe excluding a bit n64 for it lack of games (but the title were always the best)),and cause this I can play to Mario, Zelda, and all the other traditional games of Nintendo. Then, after buying a Nintendo, I'll buy PS2 if there would be some huge hit on it that wouldn't be ported on GAMECUBE.
We have to remember that Xenosaga is from Namco,and that Namco have already some titles undrway to GAMECUBE. However I hope that also Square will re-begin in making game for GAMECUBE, after the years of N64.
Well,the only things that remains to do for us is to be hopefull in the future, and remember "Xenosaga ways are infinite!"
Ciao Ciao
Fombo
"Spend some quality time.... with the demon of mine!"
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| | | "A slight detour" , Thu 5 Apr 08:30:
Ok this is one hell of a detour but bear with me here. Whilst I'm sure I'll meet strong opposition on this in the senate some things just have to be said. The N64 was the most over-rated console in history well ok 2nd biggest the Gameboy is probably worse in my books but I'll get to that later as well as the reason why Xenosaga should stay well clear of the gamecube.
The N64 showed a distinct change in marketing for nintendo and one which I strongly disapprove of. In the N64 we saw a dark shift towards what I call kiddie games. 4 out of every 5 N64 games involved a sickly obnoxious furry animal trying to save a lost kingdom. Nintendo reverted back to its traditional strong point with games that have always been exclusive to Nintendo platforms. Some of these games were developed by Rare. Granted there were a few games well worth playing but none which waranted the purchase of the console. To make matters worse the best game they had planned "Robotech" never was completed.
Nintendo continued to shoot themselves in the foot by making some rather poor technical decisions regarding the consoles design. Cartridge technology was chosen over CD resulting in a rather poor armount of storage space for games. If I remember correctly a cartridge holds around a maimum of 32mb of information whilst a standard CD holds up to 650mb of information. Now I'm not saying that you necesarily need all that room but it does ensure that you have virtually no restrictions when it comes to something like FMV. The squaresoft RPG's such as FF9 and Xenogears were rendered virtually impossible. In its place game players were forced to buy 3d Exploration games which may be fine in moderation but personally I get concerned when most of the games use the same sort of environment. Now to make matters worse Nintendo also chose to focus on polygons over 2d Sprites. Now I'll be the first to admit that polygons can look impressive but at the same time I'm a fan of diversity and fail to see the point in limiting a console to polygons.
Dont get me wrong in the past I owned both a NES and a SNES. I gained a great deal of entertainment from both of them but when the Playstation came along I realised it was time to switch to sony. With the N64 we saw numerous companies abandon nintendo or in other cases reduce the number of games they produced for the company. Capcom released very few games for the console with one exception being Resident Evil2 a game which had superior quality cut scenes on the PSX (due to high compression). Square left altogether as did others. The playstation picked up where nintendo failed and chose to market themselves towards a more diverse number of people. We saw games like Xenogears and Resident Evil aimed at mature audiences and games like Spyro aimed at kids.
Now for the gameboy. What can I say about this piece of junk which hasnt already been said. The gameboy is one of those fads which somehow managed to survive for far too long due to saturation marketing. The fact that it defeated both the lynx and gamegear is staggering when you think about the fact that the gameboy had the worst specs of the 3. Granted it didnt drain batteries as fast but what the hell is the point of a handheld console which displays games worse then the original nintendo? Here I was thinking technology should move forward and for a long time it seemed that the gameboy was a step back.
Thankfully it seems to have been improved in recent years to be on about the same level as the original nintendo. Still this isnt much to write home about, the original nintendo is a piece of junk by todays standards. Essentially the idea is so that people obsessed with games can twiddle their thumbs outside of the house. Rather then waste your time playing a game whilst you're not home, why not read a book or heaven forbid do something constructive.
Now I probably sound like a royal pain in the ass for saying all this especially to all those nintendo fans out there. In any case Nintendo seems intent on continuing its atrocities towards mature game players. The fact that nintendo now markets itself towards kids means very few mature games will be released on the gamecube and that is why Xenosaga should stay well clear of the whole mess. I for one only intend to buy one of the next generation consoles and it sure as hell will not be the gamecube. I realise I went of track a little but with 20 of these threads around who cares.
"Religion has no place in public schools just like facts have no place in religion"
-Superintendent Chalmers (The Simpsons)
[this message was edited by DarkSabre on Thu 5 Apr 08:42]
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| | | "Re(1):A slight detour - A pothole patched." , Thu 5 Apr 20:59
I agree wholeheartedly with what you say, however while I'm no fan of Cartridges, the main reason that they were frowned upon as a medium was their overall cost to mass-produce. Not necessarily their storage size. Or more accurately Cost/unit medium.
Ogre Battle 64 ($65), which is a damn fine TRPG by any means, was a 320MB Cartridge, but with the sheer cost of materials in one of those game-paks is a massive difference from the 12 cents american that it costs to bulk purchase the plastic for, and press a CD. It would be possible to package the 650MB capacity of a CD and more into a cartridge but the game would hit the markets selling most likely for over $100, much like either Phantasy Star 3 or 4 did upon release back in the day. Even something so relatively minor as Dragon Quest II, when first released in the US cost myself $70 due to the manufacturing costs alone of such a large (at the time) need for medium space provided by chips.
That and if you multiply the sheer cost of one of those theoretical 650MB Monster Carts by the number of CDs in a game like the newer FFs, it's no wonder why Square and others jumped ship when the 64 was announced. It would be like buying Neo Geo games... yipes!
-Ky
Downward is Heavenward
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| | | "Re(1):A slight detour" , Thu 5 Apr 14:43
I agree with you that Nintendo should have had mature games. But I would say that marketing for kids wasn't a bad idea, for one reason, Pokemon, somehow it brainwashed thousands of kids to spend 4 billion dollars on this product. Too bad probaly only 3 million acualy came from the game. I'm probaly gonna get a Gamecube and eventualy get a ps2 when the price goes down. It seems like I said that I would get one a thousand times on this board. The few mature games for N64 were great, especialy Goldeneye.
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| | | "Re(2):A slight detour" , Thu 5 Apr 20:09
Whilst it is true that the policy paid of in regards to the pokemon phenomenon that is besides the point They could still have released a wider range of games for different audiences. Oh and just so there's no confusion by mature I do not mean "Wheel of fortune" which is probably only owned by old ladies
"Religion has no place in public schools just like facts have no place in religion"
-Superintendent Chalmers (The Simpsons)
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| | | "Re(3):A slight detour" , Thu 5 Apr 21:05
DS, just outta left field, any thoughts whatsoever on the storage medium GCN is going to make use of? 1.2GB Mini-DVD diks.
I haven't really had a chance to ask anyone what they think of it, but doesn't it seem kinda stupid that they're specializing their medium just for the sake of the aesthetics of the console itself? (which is damn ugly from every pic i've seen)
Honestly... GameCube and X-box. They're seriously a cube and a gigantic X.
At least the DC and the PS2 look dignified, and have reasonable design.
Oops.. got off on a tangent there. Thoughts?
-Ky
Downward is Heavenward
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| | | "Re(4):A slight detour" , Fri 6 Apr 08:15
I havent really heard much about these mini DVD disks in fact much the same as what you said. Its a significant improvement over the cartridges but I wonder what the cost of them will be. Another point about cartridges I neglected to mention is that they do stamp out piracy more efficently since they're difficult to replicate.
I have to agree with you about the designs with those two consoles sucking. Although I think the gamecube's design reflects nintendo's decision to still focus on capturing the child market. I suspect they'll probably be more games for us mature game players on the cube since they can have FMV at long last although its probably best to wait and see what they throw at us. The new technology may solve the memory problem but it's still up to them to provide us with games that are appealing.
The X-box whilst damn ugly looks set to be a monster on the market. It has heaps of software developers lined up and from the sound of it has decent specs backing it up. Personally I hate microsoft but I have to hand it to them, they're set to carve up a good chunk of the market. Lets just hope that it doesnt crash every 5 seconds like windows and that Microsoft never makes cars.
So far the PSX2 looks like my choice of console although at this point in time I dont particularly have any plans to buy one since there's no good games for it at the moment. Metal gear solid 2 should help the situation as will Xenosaga if it sees the light of day. The problem is that apparently its bloody hard to program games on the PSX2 which may prove to be its undoing.
Finally I apologise for any errors in my previous post. I didnt proof read it and wrote it very late at night. At 2am my posts are either a lot better or a lot worse, usually more mean spirited.
"Religion has no place in public schools just like facts have no place in religion"
-Superintendent Chalmers (The Simpsons)
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| | | "Re(5):A slight detour" , Fri 6 Apr 10:33
Hey, don't worry about errors, I'm full of'em.
Nintendo's descision to focus mainly on a child market may seem pretty stupid at first glance, and while I have a pretty bad taste in my mouth after experiencing firsthand the wasted effort of buying an N64, there is a rather ingenious market play that they are gearing up to make with the new console.
Nintendo will undoubtedly sell GCs by the millions to Pokémon-rabid children across the world. They also have the new medium witch will dramatically increase their storage space. The console is quite easy and inexpensive (comparitavely) to develope for as well. Many of Nintendo's old comrades in arms have shown quite the interest in the new console such as Capcom, Enix and Konami who are just about the biggest kids on the block when it comes to the gaming market.
Now, with all of these consoles already a sure-hit with children, and no doubt to be in the homes of so many it makes for a great opportunity, not only for the big N, but also said developers to simply float their software into the market on the GC (ie they don't have to wait for the next FFVII or MGS to ensure the long-livedness of the console, it's guaranteed). Most gamers who have kids will probably jump at games suited more for their tastes that don't require another costly console purchase. With it already in so many households via the Pokémon phenomenon, the rest of the multi-genre market is pretty much a straight shot.
Granted, with the more jaded veterans of the Video game world out there, such as you or I, it may not take immediately, but I have a feeling that Nintendo may share the top spot in the gaming world in the not-so-distant future, or at least share the space with Sony.
As for M$... Alot of people really dislike the company (You, me, probably most everyone on the board) and while it's machine is an absolute monster when it comes to specs and potential, alot of the Japanese developers have taken a "Wait and see" position. Whilst they may have agreements to licence their games to the X-box, most of them have conceded that they're gonna sit on their anus' for a while to see how it does in direct competition with Sony and Nintendo. That is seriously gonna hurt them in a big way, right off the bat.
Sure they'll have a ton of american developers to help them get off of the ground, but 90% of the console game market is caught in an eternal strangle-hold by the Japanese companies. I doubt that is going to change, and I don't see the box doin' much better than the DreamCast faired.
Not only that, but their heavy-ass clunky controller sucks boatloads of ass. By all accounts, it really does feel worse than the 64 controller does... very hard to reach the buttons.
I could be wrong, but the console market is a fairly predictable beast when it comes to these things.
-Ky
Downward is Heavenward
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| | | "Re(4):Xenosaga Details revealed" , Mon 2 Apr 11:52
I've thought of all of those possibilities, and I'm still rather cynical about how the end product will look once all is said and done. I'm more excited just to know more news about it than anything else. July 8th... hehehe
If it doesn't reach the US, then I, much like you will just have to brush up on mah Japanese, so either way, it's fine by me.
But it is still something that this is being made in either case.
......and no way is M$ gonna be a leader in the console wars.
Gamecube, maybe... but not Microsoft. Too many of their games are nothing but PC ports, whereas the people who play PC games already have PCs to play them on. Not only that, but by market popularity, Sony and Nintendo both have a huge lead over "the evil corporation". Games that aren't PC ports are for the most part just ports from PS2. *shrug* There are no exclusive killer aps for it yet.
But it may just turn out the other way... I personally doubt it highly. But hey, the Dreamcast had alot of exclusive games that can bend FF over their knees and spank them bloody, but Dreamcast is a dieing platform, which marks the last nail in Sega's hardware developement life.
So anywho... I think I lost myself.
-Ky
Ps. a game only has to reach sales point of 500,000 to be considered a success by market standard. Very few games ever breach the 1 million mark, and of those only a tiny handful reach the massive sales of Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, or Pokémon. Then again, as cost goes up for developement on platforms such as the PS2, that number may jump... I dunno. It can really go either way.
Remember that to dream is to stand upon the shores that border another world.... and there as always I shall wait for you........
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| | "Re(1):Xenosaga Details revealed" , Sun 1 Apr 08:49
Hmm.. That could be interesting... :)
However, I was rather to see one of the early "xenogears-described" epoques.. Maybe something to do about Kim's or Lacan's saga.... Where you would play some unrelated group of characters, interact with npcs like Krel, Lacan, Elly, etc, and die at the end, FFT style, to justify their lack of presence in original Xeno :)
Best Regards
Kostjan
Quote of the moment:
[Jeff K] Oh no teh FIBI si knocking on my door right now! QUICK HIDE TEH LUNIX!!!
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| | | "I see you baby, shakin' that ass" , Sun 1 Apr 19:03
I can field that one. From the trailer I saw, XS seems to focus on Episode I. Now, I've been reviewing the headlines for each Episode in Perfect Works, and it goes as this:
Episode I: Space War Era
Episode II: Primitive Era (first life on new planet)
Episode III: Zeboim Civilization
Episode IV: Solaris Postwar Period
Episode V: XENOGEARS
Episode VI: *titless*
Nearest I can figure, Xenosaga is exactly what I thought the "sequel" would be. The era leading up to Deus and the Eldrdige back on the first planet. I'll take a look at the rest of Episode I info later.
--Hyu
"This is going to be the most frustrating difficult annoying thing you've ever done in your life. And that's the way it should be." --Colbey Calistinsson
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| | | "Re(1):I see you baby, shakin' that ass" , Sun 1 Apr 21:34
I can just imagine the last boss being the runaway infant Deus as he runs rampage on Miktam04B, before he gets dismantled and sealed aboard the Eldrdge.
It all returns to nothing. It all
comes tumbling down
tumbling down
tumbling
down.
Posts: 103
| Location: Triangle Island World of Balance
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| | |  "Shake that ass, watch yourself"
, Sun 1 Apr 19:24
quote:
Episode VI: *titless*
Episode VI has no tits!
-TC
erau qssi ssaym
"We hope that rules and wisdom choke you" - Radiohead
Posts: 844
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| | "Re(1):Xenosaga Details revealed" , Sun 1 Apr 08:41
Hmm.. now isn't that a familiar font? All we need now is a nice big 'X'/cross behind it and things will start getting interesting.
Oroboros
Infinity likes safe drivers...
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