Topic Title: The nature of Grahf
| |  "The nature of Grahf"
, Mon 11 Jun 02:26 PM |
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It is obvious that Grahf, like the biblical figure Jabez, was 'born in pain'. However, was it simply Sophia's death and Lacan's resulting breakdown that gave rise to Grahf, or was it something more?
Obviously, Zohar had something to do with it. Lacan's 'imperfect Contact' with the Wave Existence introduced him to more power and glory than he could ever truly comprehend. Perhaps this encounter lead to Grahf's ability to transmigrate at will. After all, the Wave Existence's end goal was to be free of its 'cage of fleshy existence.' Perhaps Grahf learned to do just that, for while the Contact was imperfect, it was still a Contact. Therefore, just as the Wave Existence imparts the Xenogears to Fei, perhaps the W.E. imparted its desire to be free of flesh to Lacan/Grahf.
There is also the fact that any direct contact with Zohar imparts powers that shouldn't be in the hands of anyone as selfish as Grahf, Id, or even Krelian.
Just my 2 G.
~Rekhodiah~
aka Cougar_chan
"Have I not commanded you? Be strong and very courageous." - Joshua 1:7
"I am mischevious... it is in my nature. Forgive me."
"My fist is the divine breath..."
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| | "Re(1):The nature of Grahf" , Tue 12 Jun 02:26 AM | Message #1452
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I think in the end it tells that souls are spawned by the spewing Waves from a higher dimension, so maybe the failure contact resulted in teh creation of a twisted soul that is like a drifting parasite which always seeks a host and order the host to seek power to destroy God, and maybe get revenge for Sophia (as the Diabolos killed the Gazel Ministry)
No0w if anyone can tell me who or what is Cain. I mean, it's said that no one other than Cain himself can kill Cain, and it seems that not even Miang can kill him...
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Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven.
- John Milton Paradise Lost
Hail to Cthulhu Incarnate! Dark One Reborn! Master of the Throne of the Deep! Lord of Shayol Ghul! Essence of Yin!
Devil's in His Hell. All's too bad with the world.
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| | | "Re(2):The nature of Grahf" , Mon 18 Jun 09:24 AM | Message #1455
Replied to #1452 |
I'm guessing that Cain's ability to not be killed by anyone but himself was due to being the first human born. I guess that gave him special powers or something. ^_^
"Here is where those who died of illness or those who abandoned their humanity for machine bodies rest eternally."
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| | | "Re(2):The nature of Grahf" , Sun 17 Jun 11:55 AM | Message #1454
Replied to #1452 |
I think Kahn (Fei's father) may have been the first one in a while to give Grahf any trouble, at least as far as "ordering" is concerned. Wiseman was a phenomenon of Shevat after the defeat of the Diabolos. Since Grahf could choose his host, as opposed to Miang simply moving from one woman to the next through the Orubolus (sp?), he probably picked out people who were rather weak-willed, the better to focus on his quest for power (kinda like Karla from Lodoss, ne?). The host probably knew little about Zohar or the nature of life on the world of Xenogears, so Grahf probably did not order too much. He simply took over. With the notable exception of Khan Wong...
~Rekhodiah~
aka Cougar_chan
"Have I not commanded you? Be strong and very courageous." - Joshua 1:7
"I am mischevious... it is in my nature. Forgive me."
"My fist is the divine breath..."
"This world is made of LOVE & PEACE!!"
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| | | "Re(2):The nature of Grahf" , Tue 12 Jun 11:18 AM : | Message #1453
Reply Edited |
Cain was the first human created by the True Mother. He's the yellow guy in the mask, that had sent Citan to look after Fei. And yes, only Cain could kill Cain... so lo and behold, Ramsus was a clone of Cain, and thus was able to kill him.
Now what I'd like to see is
 vs.  BATTLE OF THE AGES!
[this message was edited by TheContact on Tue 12 Jun 11:28 AM]
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| | | "Re(3):The nature of Grahf" , Mon 18 Jun 06:00 PM | Message #1456
Replied to #1453 |
I always wonder too, that if Ramsus is the clone of Cain, thus "Cain himself", does that mean no one can kill Ramsus? But from what the game tells, Id can pretty sure kill Ramsus on quite a few occasions.
-------------------
Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven.
- John Milton Paradise Lost
Hail to Cthulhu Incarnate! Dark One Reborn! Master of the Throne of the Deep! Lord of Shayol Ghul! Essence of Yin!
Devil's in His Hell. All's too bad with the world.
Posts: 327
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| | | "Re(4):The nature of Grahf" , Fri 6 Jul 08:07 PM | Message #1486
Replied to #1456 |
quote:
Id can pretty sure kill Ramsus on quite a few occasions.
...
Actually, this is quite debatable. Although Miang seems concerned for Ramsus' safety at times when he fights Id, that may just be part of her act. Certainly she and Krelian send him out over and over again confident that he won't be killed by Id (or, at times, Fei). Also, Id appears to have squished Ramsus with his gear at the end of the Elru flashback. I've always assumed that Ramsus was the only survivor of that incident because he was -Cain-.
"Gives a new meaning to the term 'Trash TV'"
- critical reaction to the first show of 'The Late Show with Kahran Ramsus'
Read all about it at the RPG Inquisitor!
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| | | "Re(4):The nature of Grahf" , Mon 18 Jun 06:34 PM | Message #1457
Replied to #1456 |
No, I think it only applies to Cain. Ramsus maybe a clone of Cain, but he is not Cain himself. I think that's why Cain wears all that stuff - he must be so old that he needs the extra support.
It may have to do with built-in ether properties or something... I frankly don't know.
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| | | "Re(5):The nature of Grahf" , Mon 18 Jun 11:57 PM | Message #1458
Replied to #1457 |
But... he is Cain...
Oh nevermind, I'll just follow the Contact, otherwise I'll just be going in circles.
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| | | "Re(6):The nature of Grahf" , Tue 19 Jun 12:46 AM | Message #1459
Replied to #1458 |
So Cain looked like Ramsus when he was young huh?
How come when he killed Abel, he had that suit thing on already?
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| | | "Re(7):The nature of Grahf" , Fri 6 Jul 08:12 PM | Message #1487
Replied to #1459 |
I would imagine so, yes. After all, Ramsus was indeed referred to by Krelian and Miang as a clone of Cain, so he would have looked the same barring some environmental factors.
Emperor Cain's helm and apparel were almost certainly not his actual appearance, but rather ceremonial gear.
Cain and Kahr would have had differences in their appearance only if something had occurred to alter the appearance of one or the other, but even then basic things like bone structure, hair and eye color, basic build and most of their facial features would have remained the same.
"Gives a new meaning to the term 'Trash TV'"
- critical reaction to the first show of 'The Late Show with Kahran Ramsus'
Read all about it at the RPG Inquisitor!
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| | | "Re(8):The nature of Grahf" , Tue 19 Jun 05:03 AM | Message #1461
Replied to #1460 |
seems I have successfully changed the topic to "The Nature of Cain and Ramsus" :)
I ahve to say that if Cain needs that much of life support system to live on, why anyone (especially Krelian, who's the real leader of Solaris) didn't just pull the plug on the life support to kill Cain?
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Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven.
- John Milton Paradise Lost
Hail to Cthulhu Incarnate! Dark One Reborn! Master of the Throne of the Deep! Lord of Shayol Ghul! Essence of Yin!
Devil's in His Hell. All's too bad with the world.
Posts: 328
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| | | "Re(9):The nature of Grahf" , Thu 21 Jun 12:12 AM | Message #1463
Replied to #1461 |
quote:
"The Nature of Cain and Ramsus"
maybe xylix is right, but there could be a number of reasons why he wasn't killed off earlier:
Cain was just a convenient figure-head. Although Krel may have been the "true ruler" he still originated from the 'Lambs'. The general populace may have not known that fact, but the Gazel sure seemed to find it a reason to bitch about him. Up until the end, though, Cain was supportive(?) of Krelian's plans (those that he knew about anyway).
That and also, I guess they let him live so long because Ramsus just wasn't ready yet.
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| | | "Re(10):The nature of Grahf" , Thu 21 Jun 09:23 AM | Message #1464
Replied to #1462 |
You are right. It was programmed in the whole population of the world. So only someone who didn't have that program (the one who created it, Cain) could kill him. This means that Ramsus was different from everyone... Like we didn't know.
Never the end. We shall prevail. Forever!
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| | | "Re(2):Re(10):The nature of Grahf" , Fri 6 Jul 08:20 PM | Message #1488
Replied to #1464 |
quote:
It was programmed in the whole population of the world. So only someone who didn't have that program (the one who created it, Cain) could kill him.
...
Id would have had the same limiters as anyone else, prior to the events when the party is in Solaris. But technically, not just Id and Fei but also Hyuga, Bart, Billy, Rico, Chu-Chu, Maria, Elly, Jesiah, Emeralda (who probably didn't have a functioning limiter to begin with), and maybe even Hammer had their limiters removed there. If it was just a limiter issue, Krelian could have removed the limiters himself. Cain's power had to be an issue, as well, otherwise Krelian or Miang (or Hammer!) could have killed Cain. Presumably, the 'ultimate power' over humans that Miang claims Cain has is second only to the Contact's, and different in nature (and greater than Grahf's, apparently).
"Gives a new meaning to the term 'Trash TV'"
- critical reaction to the first show of 'The Late Show with Kahran Ramsus'
Read all about it at the RPG Inquisitor!
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