Topic Title: Xenogears... um... stuff
| |  "Xenogears... um... stuff"
, Mon 9 Jul 01:02 PM |
|
This' my second post here... slowly crawlin' my way up to 100... heh heh heh... just a matter of time...
Uh... anyway, I've got some Xenogears questions (what!? on a xenogears messageboard!? That's INSANE!). These have probably been asked seventy-gagillion-zillion-billion-million times, but I've never seen the answers 'cause I'm new. So tough.
1)What did Krelian need from Deus, in the first place? As I understood it, Krelian wanted to be with god. Deus isn't actually god, though, so why was Krelian aiding in the process of ressurecting him? Was that the only way he could reach the path to Sephirot (through Deus)?
2)Ramsus was created to kill Cain, right? If so, why was he treated so badly all his life? Why did Krelian bother using him at all until the moment he really needed him? By treating Ramsus like "-trash-" all his life, isn't Krelian only running the risk of losing Ramsus (if he were to go insane, and run away, or perhaps, even kill Krelian)?
3)What the h-e-double-hockey-sticks is up with those hyphens in the game? i.e. -trash-, -lambs-, etc.
4)What is the Wave Existence? Is it god? Is it a "piece" of god that got stuck in our dimension... I recall it saying it came from the fourth dimension...
5)If the wave existence IS god, and it did come from the fourth dimension, does that make the 4D heaven?
I had more questions, but I can't remember them all right now...
I'll be back...
-Surtur likes smilies 
hee hee hee... this one seems to be blowing up...
"You shall shed red tears." - Vicious (Cowboy Bebop)
Posts: 1
| Location: ON Canada
| Registered: Mon 9 Jul 2001 12:12 |  |
|
| |
| |  "Re(1):Xenogears... um... stuff"
, Fri 13 Jul 18:29 PM : | Message #1502
Reply Edited |
Thanks for the answers so far, but I've got more questions a-comin'...
ahem...
They'll all come back to me eventually... uh... this one is kind of stupid, but there might be a logical answer I'm not aware that you can still fill me in on...
7)I can recall hearing somewhere that the people living on the Eldridge are survivors of Deus' initial attack. What I'm wondering is, why would these people agree to live on a ship assigned the duty of transporting the very weapon that destroyed their homes and lives once before? Did they not know Deus was aboard? Are they just stupid?
-Surtur's a-comin'! Look out!
"You shall shed red tears." - Vicious (Cowboy Bebop)
[this message was edited by Surtur on Fri 13 Jul 06:30 PM]
Posts: 14
| Location: ON Canada
| Registered: Mon 9 Jul 2001 12:12 | |
|
| | | "Re(2):Xenogears... um... stuff" , Thu 26 Jul 07:47 PM | Message #1524
Replied to #1502 |
Ooh, ooh, I remembered another question:
1) When Krelian first states that he wants to create God with his own hands, does he know about the existence of Deus, or was it all some freak coincidence that he finds out later he actually does have the opportunity to "create God"?
-Surtur wants to create a God to do his bidding... *laughs in an evil fashion... then dies... then laughs some more...*
"I can't believe it. I missed. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..." - Bullseye after killing Karen Page with a shot meant for Daredevil (Daredevil Vol. 2 Issue 5)
-----------
"But sooner or later it happens to even the best children doesn't it blasphemer? Sooner or later every son lets his mother down."
"No... mom..." - Conversation between Mephisto and Daredevil (also Daredevil vol. 2 issue 5)
Posts: 33
| Location: ON Canada
| Registered: Mon 9 Jul 2001 12:12 | |
|
| | | "Re(3):Xenogears... um... stuff" , Thu 26 Jul 08:52 PM | Message #1525
Replied to #1524 |
It was a coincidence. Before Sophia died, he believed there was a 'God' (as in the monotheist religions of our world). It was because of Sophia's death that he lost his faith. At the time, he certainly would not have known anything about 'Deus.' The only 'people' that would have known were Miang, Cain, and the Gazel Ministry.
Posts: 31
| Location: Vancouver BC Canada
| Registered: Wed 23 May 2001 15:6 | |
|
| | | "Re(2):Xenogears... um... stuff" , Fri 13 Jul 08:04 PM | Message #1503
Replied to #1502 |
After Deus' initial attack on the planet where the colonists first got hurt, Deus was SECRETLY put back on the Eldridge. The surviviors had no clue as to what happened to it.
Let The Light In...
Posts: 82
|
| Registered: Sun 4 Mar 2001 16:44 | |
|
| | "Re(1):Xenogears... um... stuff" , Thu 12 Jul 06:18 AM | Message #1500
|
Well, I'll try to offer some explanations, although you'll probably want to wait for some other opinions, too, since this IS only as far as I understood it. Here goes:
1)Krelian originally wanted to revive Deus because, as far as he knew, it WAS god. On Disc 2, when he gained access to Razael's Tree (the computer inside ?Merkava?, where you fight the "pre-awakened" Deus--not the final battle), he learned of the Wave Existence. Since the WE was certainly more godlike than this big interplanetary weapon, Krel decided to switch plans to become one with it. But, only the Contact can make a connection with the WE through Zohar alone, so that left only to go through Deus itself, which was powered by the WE through Zohar. In short, "yes". :-)
2)Do you remember Miang's explanation of Ramsus' power? ("Resentment... that is the source of your power.") Since Cain was never meant to be killed (no clue on naturally dying of age), his clone needed to have an extra "boost" of mental power (bad explanation. Thus, all the neglect, abuse, etc. was meant to build up R's resentment toward Krelian, Fei, Upper Class Solaris, the world, etc. in order to turn it on Cain. The final step was the death of Miang's "in-game" body; thus, the final rejection and degredation from Krelian and Miang ("You're not even human", etc.) was to provoke R to kill Miang, allowing her to awaken in Elly. Until then, though, R was kept in line by Miang; she was his only major source of affection--he wouldn't want to lose the only love he's been given, while she canmanipulate him all the easier. Poor Kahr. :-(
3)-Hyphens-? You do not -like- the -hyphens-? ;-)I'd say they're for either emphasis or to show that the word isn't being used in the normal sense. (i.e. Write -Lambs- for the Solarian term for surface dwellers; Lambs would mean young sheep.)
4 & 5) Well... I think it's definitely what humans would generally call a 'supreme being', but I don't know that the 'higher beings' purposely created the universe. ("The souls of humankind are the leftovers from waves spilling over from this higher dimension." -Krelian, very paraphrased) But, since souls originated from this place, they clearly can return (Krel); so... all I can say is that the WE and the fourth dimensional world are the closest equivalents to god and heaven that exist in Xenogears. Apart from that, you'll have to form your own opinions or wait until someone can explain it better. ;-D
Oh, and on that "side conversation" on Krel the Indestructable:
In theory, the only way Krelian could physically die would be if EVERY nanomachine in his body was destroyed. If even one remained functional, it would repair others, the others would repair others, etc. until the body could be repaired, too. But I suppose
that the actual "critical limit" is somewhere above one nanomachine (otherwise, how will the physical body stay alive while the nanos are fixing each other?); 'sides, he never implies that regenerating from, say, a hypothetical internal explosion would be EASY--"This amount of damage [a sword wound, localized and likely to only soft tissues and maybe some organs] can be repaired rather easily." Anyway, for most of the game, Krel's darn near indestructable. The only snag would come from Melchoir's "nano-disassemblers" for combating the Seraphs (deactivate nanomachines), but Krel was already in Merkava by then. ^__^
Feel free to ask more questions; people like me can put our thoughts in order by explaining and get corrected if we're totally off. ;-) (Can you tell I like rambling? I'd better stop.)
Posts: 60
| Location: Midwestern USA
| Registered: Thu 31 Aug 2000 12:43 | |
|
| | | "Re(2):Xenogears... um... stuff" , Sat 14 Jul 12:17 AM | Message #1505
Replied to #1500 |
Hey, seems you understand this in a bit more detail than I do.
Your avatar and 'name' are similar to my own... would you be my sister? heh.
I just had this weird image of all the little nanomachines trying to fix each other 
Now, I thought that Ramsus as an 'artificial contact' was only an excuse to hide the fact that he was a Cain clone. Isn't that what Krel reveals during the game? For Krelian to have intentionally try to make Ramsus an artificial contact out of Cain's DNA would be far too... convenient.
Posts: 25
| Location: Vancouver BC Canada
| Registered: Wed 23 May 2001 15:6 | |
|
| | | "Re(3):Xenogears... um... stuff" , Sat 14 Jul 05:43 AM | Message #1506
Replied to #1505 |
I noticed the similarities, too! Kinda fun. :-)
Yeah, my first time through the game, I just assumed Ramsus was an artificial contact, but then I realized that Krel would have to use that as a coverup for Kahr's real purpose. After all, he wouldn't want Cain to suspect anything; aging as Cain is, I'm sure Krelian didn't want to risk the original being throwing a wrench into his schemes. ^__^
Speaking of nanomachines, I once had a "mental flash" of rusty nanomachines. ^_^; It struck me funny at the time, though I suppose they aren't made of rust-able material...
Posts: 63
| Location: Midwestern USA
| Registered: Thu 31 Aug 2000 12:43 | |
|
| | | "nanomachines..." , Mon 16 Jul 04:17 PM | Message #1507
Replied to #1506 |
whoops, looks like I just switched the subject, but that's okay I guess. We'll wait until Surtur can remember the rest of his questions....
What would the nanomachines be made of, I wonder, if they are small enough to alter matter on the molecular level? The 'machines' of human cells are merely proteins, and enzymes made up of amino acids. Could there possibly be anything resembling a 'computer' that would be that small? Unless they are bigger than cells?
Oh never mind me, I'm taking biology in summer school right now.
Posts: 26
| Location: Vancouver BC Canada
| Registered: Wed 23 May 2001 15:6 | |
|
| | | "Re(1):nanomachines..." , Tue 17 Jul 06:13 AM | Message #1508
Replied to #1507 |
quote:
Could there possibly be anything resembling a 'computer' that would be that small? Unless they are bigger than cells?
...
Well, Krelian's original nanomachines (the ones he made) were probably larger; remember, after he took samples from Emeralda, he could refine the design. Kim had the advantage in that he was a top mind in a (presumably) well-developed field; Krelian was a naturally gifted scholar, but he had only Melchoir and the old research report(s) for background. Emeralda was Kim's finest achievement, but I don't think he left any documentation-- but I seem to have REALLY changed the subject. ^__^
On the computers: maybe the individual nanomachines are specialized, like cells? (Some repair muscle tissue, some repair blood cells, some repair other nanomachines, some destroy viruses, etc.) If so, then the programming wouldn't have to be quite as complicated.
Posts: 64
| Location: Midwestern USA
| Registered: Thu 31 Aug 2000 12:43 | |
|
| | | "Re(2):nanomachines..." , Tue 17 Jul 05:43 PM | Message #1509
Replied to #1508 |
Oh yes, I guess having nanomachines with specific functions would be more efficient.
quote:
Krelian was a naturally gifted scholar
*sigh* I wish I could be that smart.
Haha... you know that flashback that Fei has where Krelian brags about reading 3 books a day?
My brother replied with something to the effect of:
"Oh you mean picture books?!"
Posts: 27
| Location: Vancouver BC Canada
| Registered: Wed 23 May 2001 15:6 | |
|
| | "Re(1):Xenogears... um... stuff" , Mon 9 Jul 07:19 PM | Message #1496
|
I'm relatively new and quiet around here, so I won't mind trying to answer your questions. However, do bear in mind that I probably won't have as accurate or complete answers as other viewers out there (especially if they have Perfect Works)! Also a lot of the following will probably be tainted with my own interpretation/opinions of the game:
1.) the Wave Existence (or WE for short, as used often on this board) is what was trapped inside Zohar from the higher dimension. Whether Krelian knew this and was trying to return to it from the beginning of his plan, I doubt, but he did know that the Deus system was the origin of "humanity" on the planet. Like he says at the end of the game, his main goal was probably to return everything to nothing. After he learned of the WE, though, he probably wanted to return to it, reinforcing his intentions. (I'm still kinda unsure about this whole elaborate set up with the Contact though... did Krelian 'plan' ALL of this, counting simply on the fact that Fei and Elly would do exactly as the WE wanted in order to free it??)
2) you got me. Probably it was an accident that Ramsus turned out to be so helpful. By the sounds of it, Krelian could have let Cain's body deteriorate until he was no threat... or both Krel and Miang were counting on Ramsus, being the unstable being that he is, to fulfill his original purpose - as Cain's clone.
Ramsus did eventually become temporarily insane. Run away? Maybe, but if Krel can alter the DNA structure of every human on the planet among other things, I'm sure he could have tracked Ramsus down if he really wanted to. Krelian can't be killed. 
3.) the -hyphens- I think are the game's version of italics, emphasis on the spoken word.
4.) the Wave Existence? I'm not touching that one. Not the 4th. It would be from the 5th, I think the game said. 4D is time.
You'll probably understand all this better another time through the game.
"I've thrown away all human emotion. All I need is 'her'"
"Isn't that also an emotion?"
"...Of course."
"...Is that a blunder?"
Posts: 23
| Location: Vancouver BC Canada
| Registered: Wed 23 May 2001 15:6 | |
|
| | | "Re(2):Xenogears... um... stuff" , Tue 10 Jul 10:45 AM | Message #1497
Replied to #1496 |
Huh? Krelian can't be killed? Since when? I know he used nanomachines to PROLONG his life, but I didn't think he was actually immortal...
BTW - More questions!
Ahem:
6)When Grahf tells Fei he is the "slayer of god", does he mean god literally, or is he talking about Deus (whom Krelian also, it would seem, refers to as god, since he said he would create god with his bare hands, and he wound up "creating", or ressurecting, Deus)?
um... damn, I forgot the other question... again...
-Surtur likes to dance...
whee, look at 'im go!
"You shall shed red tears." - Vicious (Cowboy Bebop)
Posts: 2
| Location: ON Canada
| Registered: Mon 9 Jul 2001 12:12 | |
|
| | | "Re(3):Xenogears... um... stuff" , Fri 13 Jul 08:06 PM | Message #1504
Replied to #1497 |
Grahf refers to Deus when saying Fei is the slayer of god. Remember Fei being a contact is to free mankind from it';s yoke. Id tried to do this, but in a different manner.
Let The Light In...
Posts: 83
|
| Registered: Sun 4 Mar 2001 16:44 | |
|
| | | "Re(3):Xenogears... um... stuff" , Tue 10 Jul 11:21 AM | Message #1498
Replied to #1497 |
Did you forget the part where Ramsus does try to kill him? Aw, man that was the funniest part in the game when Krelian starts to get back up ...for me anyway.
ack! damn school computers... anyway for your question, it would seem that Grahf was refering to the Deus system, since Fei is the contact, he is the only human on the planet able to do so, any other human would have safeguard /internal program that would prevent them from it even if they tried.
Posts: 24
| Location: Vancouver BC Canada
| Registered: Wed 23 May 2001 15:6 | |
|
| | | "Re(4):Xenogears... um... stuff" , Tue 10 Jul 02:46 PM | Message #1499
Replied to #1498 |
Actually, I thought the funniest part of the game was when Karen was shown torturing Fei as a child.
HA HA HA HA HA HA heh heh... heh... hey, wait, that wasn't funny...
-Surtur smokes too much crack...
"You shall shed red tears." - Vicious (Cowboy Bebop)
Posts: 5
| Location: ON Canada
| Registered: Mon 9 Jul 2001 12:12 | |
|
|
|
Home
Surtur
purple shady
