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February 2012

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		HOLIDAYS
Feb 14 - Valentine's Day

Guardian Angels
Kia Purity's Site
Surtur's Fuge of the Damned
Malachit Room
The Nisan Sanctuary

[A.C]

Though AC, didn't you find Eva to be awfully ham-handed in its climax and denouement?  Completely abandoning the narrative for some film-school student schlock about metaphysical resolution of internal conflict?

Well, that's the thing. Evangelion was *always* more in the vein of Art-House film than a story in need of its fictional narrative. It's part of Evangelion's innovation that so many Anime works have attempted to emulate afterwards without success. The first half of the series (episode 1-13) is basically Hideaki Anno establishing a traditional sci-fi Anime narrative so he can tear it down later. That's why the original premise is basically something 'cliché' (also because the studio wanted it like that.) What happens from episode 14 on is the rapid, accelerating subversion of all of Evangelion's narrative devices. What appeared to be clichés that were established in the first half turn out to be narrative tropes merely there to represent something larger. This idea of narrative subversion is completed with the series finale. These two episodes get to the heart of why this series was created. It's the ultimate expression of its creator, speaking through his characters directly to the audience.

This stripping away of its narrative is symbolic in how the walls around its characters have been stripped away and, in many ways, this "tearing down the walls" idea becomes evident as early as episode 14. The "walls" of this series (the sci-fi narrative clichés) represent the "walls" that its characters have built up around themselves. Like the characters, this wall is just a guise, a facade used to hide the true nature underneath. The idea of an "inner world mirrored in an outer world" is what Evangelion is about.

I also found the main characters have not aged particularly well.  Actually, I should say that the series feels considerably more palpable if you're going through some amount of teen-aged angst.  As an adult, the characters come off as overwrought and not really like people at all.  I have a hard time seeing them for being more than one-dimensional set pieces Anno uses to convey largely singular and simple conflicts.  Some of their conflicts are really truly poorly revealed too.

I don't know why you would think of them as one-dimensional. Shinji alone traverses emotional grounds of passivity, aggression, passive aggression, heroism, cowardice, apathy, passion, and just about everywhere in between. In fact, there almost isn't any character in the series that exists in one-dimension. On a larger scale, Shinji is Anno's portrayal of a serious depression he went through. Finally Shinji is also depicted as someone who's meant to reflect much of Anime's main fan-base; fantasy obsessed viewers who retreat from reality to hide in the comfort of escapism entertainment that give them something positive. Evangelion instead tries to make this audience reflect on themselves and why they do this.

Evangelion's ultimate point isn't that the characters learn a life lesson and emerge a completely changed/better person because of it. The change that happens to every character is a subtle, more important and realistic one. The ultimate destination in Evangelion is not the point where the characters are completely changed, but the all important first step to understanding and recovery. As the series suggests, this is the only point at which personal change can come. As I see it, it tries to question what it takes to change, and that it is never easy.

Also, the Judeo-Christian "symbolism" is used to incredibly poor effect, there for shock value and perhaps nothing else, despite being in use constantly.  It's like using a jackhammer to make intricate wood carvings.

It uses religion for aesthetic reasons and also as metaphoric reinforcement for many of its core themes. Since Christianity isn't prevalent in Japan's society I doubt it was there for shock value. The characterisation, the 'deconstructing the genre', the sheer technical goodness, and the ocean of imagery or symbolism is a lot more subtle and important than the crucifix explosions. Although the religious symbolism may give a lot of viewers the wrong impression, I do think they serve an important part of the experience. The Angels, for example, are to Evangelion what the monolith is to 2001; they are abstract (though also very tangible) creations which reflect our humanity. The 'Genesis' in Neon Genesis Evangelion is a metonymic 'new beginning' for its characters and the world; the manifested expression of the TV endings 'change your perception of the world and the world changes' concept. Other Biblical concepts also relate, such as a kind of 2nd 'fall of man' after attaining oneness with God (in Instrumentality/Eden/Paradise), so there are many similarities that does make the symbolism relevant.

Was it a ground-breaking series at the time it came out? Sure. But I don't think it stands up to the test of time.

I don't think Citizen Kane or Metropolis stands up to the test of time either, but it doesn't change their relevance in visual media history. Besides that, I haven't seen anything produced since Evangelion that have reached such a ballsy, sincere, and artistic level. In order to find it I have to go back in time to the likes of Godard, Bergman, or Patrick McGoohan's The Prisoner. Among Anime there is nothing else that even comes close and I feel that Evangelion is almost wasted on Anime fans. Evangelion is one of those works that has the potential to profoundly effect people emotionally and psychologically. I still vividly remember my first experience watching it. Sure, not everyone can love it, but how anyone with any earnest interest in film and cinema can slam it is beyond me.

[Demerson]

Sure, not everyone can love it, but how anyone with any earnest interest in film and cinema can slam it is beyond me.

'Cuz it's bad.

[A.C]

That was predictable...

btw, Demerson, how's film-school going? Cranking out any violent masterpieces. =P

[Surtur]

Yeesh.  So much I disagree with here, rofl.

It merely continues where other Science Fiction with social/philosophical commentary such as 2001 and Blade Runner left off but with more difficulty.

Ok, first of all, Ghost in the Shell is more difficult than 2001 and Blade Runner?  MORE?

What you're doing is basically putting down 2001 or Persona because they weren't Blade Runner or Sin City and you didn't understand them

Not totally relevant, but I'm just confused now... didn't you just say in another thread that you hadn't played the Persona games because you didn't like them?

But anyway, about Eva:

On a larger scale, Shinji is Anno's portrayal of a serious depression he went through. Finally Shinji is also depicted as someone who's meant to reflect much of Anime's main fan-base; fantasy obsessed viewers who retreat from reality to hide in the comfort of escapism entertainment that give them something positive.

Those are both the same thing though.  The second thing you mentioned there is just a symptom of Shinji's depression.

Evangelion contains all of the elements of great art; great craftsmanship ... an attempt to express something deeply personal and profound through the medium

Evangelion was *always* more in the vein of Art-House film than a story in need of its fictional narrative.

But it sets up a traditional fictional narrative!  That's my main problem with Evangelion, it gives no real indication that it's trying to tell a 4th-wall-breaking, incoherent story where the narrative doesn't matter as much as the message, until the very end. So people become invested in the story, and then Anno just flips us the bird and goes "Ha ha, none of that actually mattered bitches!" And then he turns the show into a whinefest about how much it sucks for him that the studio and the fans want him to make something he doesn't want to.  From an objective viewpoint, at least, I can see how that might be kind of artistically interesting, and that's why I say maybe the show isn't completely overrated... but as far as being an attempt to "express something deeply personal and profound through the medium" I think it's pretty awful.  You know how you express something deeply personal and profound through the medium?  By telling a story!  The story doesn't even have to be totally coherent all the time, but what happens to the characters ought to be relevant to some kind of plot in some way.  If Anno wanted to experiment with this concept by trying to reach people directly instead of through a story, maybe he shouldn't have done it in a 26 episode TV series, half of which are lies.  Maybe, say, a two-hour movie or something.  

But the fact of the matter is, if people wanted to be reached directly, they'd read a goddamn essay.  People prefer to have their philosophy delivered to them through stories, that's just the way we are.  If you don't like that, there are ways to play around with it: you can write a story that's harder to grasp, that challenges people and requires a lot of analysis to make sense of.  But you can't forget about plot completely and just pretend to write a story all for the sake of eventually getting across the message that your audience should go to hell.  Or at least, you can't write that and expect people to like it.

[Demerson]

That was predictable...

btw, Demerson, how's film-school going? Cranking out any violent masterpieces. =P

Not yet, not yet.  Actually skipped this semester to relax.

Considered, for a brief moment, switching my major to physics.  Once I had regained my sanity, realized this to be a very bad idea.

[A.C]

Not totally relevant, but I'm just confused now... didn't you just say in another thread that you hadn't played the Persona games because you didn't like them?

I meant Ingmar Bergman's film 'Persona'.

If Anno wanted to experiment with this concept by trying to reach people directly instead of through a story, maybe he shouldn't have done it in a 26 episode TV series, half of which are lies.  Maybe, say, a two-hour movie or something.

Well, you know, it was the studio that specifically commissioned a Teen Mecha Anime, that's why Anno struggled with what to do. He didn't really want to, felt it was all meaningless, and wanted to run away. Afterwards he did move on to make more artsy films.

People prefer to have their philosophy delivered to them through stories, that's just the way we are.

But Evangelion is a story, and more or less a fully fleshed out one with the addition of the movie. The production period dealing with deadlines, budget, and Anno's own depression made the TV series suffer but he still did great things with it. Besides, Evangelion was extremely well-recieved in Japan besides this loss of story, also because apparently it had a different timeslot from normal anime. There were even older people watching it.

I'm too tired to type any more right now, but there's a great article here that discusses the historical context of Evangelion:
http://www.ntticc.or.jp/pub/ic_mag/ic018/intercity/higashi_E.html

[Nyuna]

Hm, I agree with both views at the same time, but anyway, about the religious imagery: it is quite curious, while the imagery is Judeo-Christian, the philosophy that the series presents is closer to Buddhism. Instrumentality is pretty much Nirvana. Piloting the EVA with the highest synchronity rate is like experiencing satori: reaching it might be only instaneous or it might last a very long period of time. Once reached, there is no guarantee to re-experience it either. In the same way, EVA units are necessary steps for the "enlightment" of every human, but they alone are not enough. Kaworu, and to a certain degree Rei and Yui can be seen as boddhisatvas, who through their presence guide the others towards the end of suffering. This works particulary well in End of EVA, when Reis stand next to everyone - "helping" each human to ascend into Nirvana by dissolving their physical bodies. It is certainly disturbing, but so is Nirvana for many, as it is a state devoid of self.